MF 2660 Perkins Smoke

[ROUSTABOUT]

First, the phrase you quoted from me "...lube oil in a diesel, if burned, puts out some really black smoke, not blueish." was my mistake. That was based on experience using a diesel VW which had so much blowby that it began to ingest and burn it's own lubricating oil from the crankcase -- and that DOES put out the blackest of black clouds. However I now realize that clean lube oil in the combustion process in tiny amounts does produce bluish smoke. OK, that mistake of mine corrected ...
Are you serious -- put motor oil in the diesel fuel !? What does that do? And if that corrects some issue what was the problem in the first place (aside from the visual shock of bluish smoke) ?? Which of your tractors put out the 'royal blue cloud?'
Tks.

The newest cab tractor puts out the smoke. The problem is diesel now days is too dry. Our smoke was royal blue. A pretty color of blue. About the color of old Ford engines, back when they were painted blue. If I change oil in a dozer or track hoe, get 15 gallons of used oil. Straight into my fuel tank. Burn it for fuel all the time.

 

[JWR]

Doesn't used oil clog up your filters and create grief in your fuel injectors !?

 

[JWR]

LOL wow I didn't know about low profile.
the only reason I am thinking coolant issue is because of this:


fuel issue will NOT show white.
white out exhaust is coolant.
how positive are you on these colors?
with that being the low profile rear exhaust I suspect no way to safely capture it on video while driving w/o killing yourself.
all I can say is diagnosing an issue ain't worth killing yourself over

See video attached. [TBN will not so far let me attach a video. I have 2 and neither works.] Not really easy to see but to me it is bluish. Still doing it 9 mos after the above post but there have been some changes: it seems to be happening less often. I have now had it happen on the level and not just downhill. And I did pour in a dose of Barr's Leak in the crankcase in July 2023. Certainly did not make it go away completely but may have reduced it (?)

I have created a couple of YouTube clips that show the smoke. MAYBE TBN will condescend to allow these to be copied in???

and

These SEEM to work...

 

[JWR]

Take a watch later today ? I am not following you Dave.

 

[Dmacleo]

Take a watch later today ? I am not following you Dave.

posted on wrong forum LOL will delete.
long day sorry.
every now and then life hits you hard LOL

 

[JWR]

Update: Since the last description I changed the oil, carefully avoiding overfilling (it had been overfilled by maybe a quart since the last change ~ 200 hrs ago. LONG time before any smoking.) But not started smoking until maybe 550 hrs with 600 hrs on it now. Pulled the breather tube and removed partial kink in it due to bent support bracket. Blow air easily through the tube. Tried Barrs Leak in the oil (to soften up the valve seals.) Did several hours mowing with bush hog and front end Lane Shark.
Result: Still puts out blue smoke often. Much worse than it was last fall (that was roughly 50 hrs ago.) Sometimes get lots of smoke on the level & no longer only when going down hill forwards. See videos above. Can however reliably produce the smoke at will by going down a moderate slope forwards and using full typical operating rpm (1800 rpm.) Does not seem to smoke below 1000 rpm (but have not tested that going down hill...)
Opinions abound: One mechanic says his did the same thing and the culprit was oil seals in the turbocharger feeding oil into the intake. Some say valve seals (in spite of low hours and breather not being plugged up to cause pressure under the valve cover.) One says no way it could need compression tests on cylinders because it starts so easily and has as much apparent power as it ever did. I still do not see how it can smoke as bad as it does, yet never show "using oil" on the dipstick.

Questions for the Audience: 1) Are turbocharger oil seals replaceable? Anyone ever done that or had it done? 2) Are the original Perkins turbos Chinese made? I find 10 or more on Amazon -- ALL Chinese. Range $340 to around $700. 3) The turbo looks fairly easy to unbolt and replace, but is it? Anyone done it or seen it done? I assume nuts get rusted badly and may not come loose just like any exhaust manifold might be... This is a Perkins 1104-D-44T.

 

[denchen]

For my penny worth of trying to help, By the colour of the smoke it looks like diesel, not oil, so I wouldn't be bothered about the turbo. So why too much diesel in the mix. It could be injectors, but they're not very old. could it be lack of air, say filter partially blocked, could be but then you wouldn't be getting the revs. Now why when going down hill it's worse. What about if the timing has slipped a little and when going downhill there is less load on the engine, less work therefore incomplete combustion. I had this on an older Perkins once. That old engine had three nuts on the injector pump and they were a tad loose. Again if it was an older Perkins I would have a look at the old cold start injector, but I don't know what system your engine has, the old heater plug had a valve that sometime didn't seat when it got older. Good luck.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Denchen hit on some very good points, ALL worth checking out ..
As far as the turbo goes, it’s very easy to check.. pull the rubber boot off the intake side..(aluminum housing) and look to see if any oil is present..
Next grab the compressor wheel and see if it’ll move side to side or up and down.
There will be some movement, say .005” max..
But your mainly looking for oil in the bottom of the housing..
Next I would unscrew the thermostart plug from the intake, if so equipped..
Then I would run the machine WITHOUT any air filters for a couple of minutes just to prove a point to myself that it’s not an air restriction.
Good luck

 

[JWR]

Another update: Many of the theories were eliminated since last post. Pulled oil fill cap & that had no effect on smoking so nothing about crankcase pressure was involved. Found a way to reliably cause the smoking by parking it pointed downhill on fairly steep slope, planting the FEL grapple into the ground to hold it in place, etc.
Finally found a shop: not far from the farm with experienced diesel mechanics, "able to do a house call," etc. . They ran several tests and then hauled the tractor to their shop. Eliminated fuel related issues, fed it with clean fuel from external temporary tank, checked injection issues, nothing loose or out of timing. Ruled out turbo lubricant as a source, etc.

Problem Solved: Valve seals leaking. Replaced valve seals, tested, all good. Delivering back to the farm next week when I will run up there.

Post Script: This raises a question. With blue smoke and oil usage in cars back in the 1960’s when I began to investigate such things it was characterized by the cars only smoking when one let up on the gas. That stopped the demand for output from the engine and meant ‘coasting’ but how does that cause oil to go around the seals??
This is an intriguing thing to study – not simple -- be it cars or tractors. This seems very related/parallel problem to my tractor issue here. Letting up on the gas seems related to "only happening going downhill." Anyone understand why really? Back then mechanics always asked if it ‘only smoked when you let up on the gas’ and if so that was an indication of faulty valve seals. But how does that work? My old friend Massey dealer locally said the intake valves are toward the front of each cylinder so maybe the upper end oil runs toward the front going downhill?? Even if so I still do not understand the overall mechanism.