MF 165 vs. new kubota

[gmacy]

I am looking to purchase a tractor to maintain 15 acres in Texas ... mainly bush hog, some discing, front end loader work ... I looked at the a new kubota, but, they are close to 16K for a 35 hp tractor ...

I found an used massey ferguson 165 that is going for 1200 ... I am going to look at it tonight, but, this is what I know about it ... the wiring to the starter may be bad - the owner has to jump it off his new tractor to get it running, but, once warm it will start up fine. It does smoke quite a bit - diesel engine - so much so, the actually rotated the muffler to point towards the front so the exhaust wouldn't be so bad. The clutch supposedly shifts fine and the PTO is fine ...

I plan on checking the following ..

> serial number of tractor
> hours of operation
> checking for any oil seeping from weeping holes under bell housing
> see how it shifts from low to high

it does not have a FEL, but, it supposedly has the hydraulic pump mounted for it on the front - is this standard for this tractor?? What about mounts for a FEL, are those standard??

What else should I look at? thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

That's EXTREMELY cheap for a 165. That's a red flag to me. They're GREAT tractors if in good shape, but anything that sounds too good to be true usually is....

The stinger pump (front mounted auxilary) is NOT normal unless it had an aftermarket loader. I'd question why that's there.

Excessive smoke may be a bad sign (at least "not a good sign...")

Aftermarket loaders are still available new to fit that tractor. Not ALL loaders will fit though (if I understand your question correctly)

Check function of PTO...under load if possible.

Check function of 3-point hitch, also under load if possible.

Check for MultiPower. If so equipped, does it work? (Avoid if it's there and does NOT work)

 

[gmacy]

Thanks for the reply - the tractor is actually owned by a family friend - his dad owned it and passed away, and this tractor has been sitting idly for a few years ... they are just trying to sell it and move on ...

can you elaborate on the stinger pump?? is that an extra pump that is traditionally added for FEL's?? If so, I would agree that it shouldn't be there otherwise.

when checking the PTO, do I want to verify it will run the implement smoothly?? in other words, I should essentially hook it up to a bush hog and make sure it runs it smoothly?
I could check the 3-point hitch at the same time correct??

The MultiPower is just switching from H to L and vice versa correct??

Could the excess smoke be an indication of a faulty seal or something more serious??

Thanks, I grew up with a MF135, but, it has been a while since I have owned a tractor and this seems like it would be a great starter tractor IF it is in good shape. Thanks.

 

[gmacy]

also, is power steering standard on these tractors?? how would i check to see if it is fuctional besides turning the wheel while running - thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks for the reply - the tractor is actually owned by a family friend - his dad owned it and passed away, and this tractor has been sitting idly for a few years ... they are just trying to sell it and move on ...

can you elaborate on the stinger pump?? is that an extra pump that is traditionally added for FEL's?? If so, I would agree that it shouldn't be there otherwise.

when checking the PTO, do I want to verify it will run the implement smoothly?? in other words, I should essentially hook it up to a bush hog and make sure it runs it smoothly?
I could check the 3-point hitch at the same time correct??

The MultiPower is just switching from H to L and vice versa correct??

Could the excess smoke be an indication of a faulty seal or something more serious??

Thanks, I grew up with a MF135, but, it has been a while since I have owned a tractor and this seems like it would be a great starter tractor IF it is in good shape. Thanks.

Under normal circumstances, a decent 165 would bring $4500 to $6000 here. I've paid more'n $1200 for non-runners. (Engine block core is worth almost that for a diesel)


The front pump is almost always used to power a loader. Those tractors have high pressure/low volume internal pumps. (2250psi @4.6 GPM) Loaders were slow without an auxilary pump. There are other possibilities, but most likely a loader was on that tractor at one point. (Check front axle pivot for excessive wear if a loader was mounted at some point)

Yes to both scenarios on pto and 3-point hitch.

Those MF's will ALL have a hi/lo shifter on the tranny. (either 3X2 speed, or 4X2 speed) MultiPower was/is a SECOND hi/lo, shifted with a lever on the dash. It's a hydraulically actuated hi/lo. MP was only available on 3X2 speed tranny, giving a TOTAL of 12 forward speeds. They can be problematic (due in part to age) 4X2 speed (aka...8-speed) is more desirable, but fairly rare on 165's.

Excessive engine smoke is USUALLY an indication of worn rings, coolant leaking into engine, or injector pump issues. It COULD be simply from sitting for a prolonged period.....

MOST 165's had power steering, but it wasn't standard equipment. If equipped, you'll find a single cylinder behind grill/in front of radiator. If Power steering isn't working, steering will be heavy. Also check for equal steering in both directions. If it steers easier to one side than to the other, usually a simple adjustment will solve that problem.

Is this 165 a "standard" or row crop model? (standard uses 28" or 30" rear wheels. Row crop uses 38"s) Standards are worth more around here.

 

[gmacy]

great - I am a bit confused on the MultiPower ... if there is a hi/lo on the tranny, what is the purpose of the MP ... also, how do i check that for function?? Thanks

 

[gmacy]

also, could i use a FEL that was taken from a MF 245 on this tractor?? thanks

 

[studor]

Here is the link to "Big Deans" website -- he has a number of tips and comment on buying a MF 100 series -- you might find it valuable

http://web.archive.org/web/20050317033942/hometown.aol.com/bigdean62/index.html

 

[gmacy]

awesome - i kept seeing him referenced but I could never find his site -thanks for the link

 

[Farmwithjunk]

great - I am a bit confused on the MultiPower ... if there is a hi/lo on the tranny, what is the purpose of the MP ... also, how do i check that for function?? Thanks

MultiPower simply gives you MORE options as far as gear ratios. MP is a "shift on the fly" hi/lo, where the 2-speed of the tranny requires clutching (and therefore, loss of drive)

 

[WilliamBos]

MultiPower simply gives you MORE options as far as gear ratios. MP is a "shift on the fly" hi/lo, where the 2-speed of the tranny requires clutching (and therefore, loss of drive)

Could also be called one of the first 2 speed powershifts, correct??

 

[gmacy]

well, i went and looked at the tractor tonight .. this is what I found out ...

>> it has 2997 hours on it
>> starts up fine, but the wiring to the alternator and ignition needs replacing as they are damaged
>> no oil leaks from the weep hole besides a small amount of engine oil
>> when we first started it, it did smoke a ton, but, after about 10 minutes it ran really clean - i am guessing all of the initial smoke was due to the sitting for 18 months
>> clutch went smoothly between low to high etc ...
>> i am not sure if it had a multi pto or not ... there was a lever on the left side of the dash that you could push up or down, moving the lever made no difference though?? this was on the opposite side of the fuel lever
>> the front left wheel wobbled pretty fierce when driving it, but, the mechanic i had with me thought it just needed new bearings??
>> brakes worked well
>> PTO started up fine and ran well, but, i had no implement to hook it up to
>> 3 point hitch would lift my 250 lb brother and hold him with no issues
>> there was an area in the front corner along the bottom of the engine block next to a bolt that leaked smoke and some oil when running?? bad gasket perhaps?? this one worries me??
>> turned easily to the left, but, very difficult to turn the wheel to the left
>> no stinger pump - that was the power steering cylinder
>> rubbers were definitely worn, but, in decent shape
>> one hydraulic lever (beneath seat) was frozen up and wouldn't budge - the other lever would move

all in all, the engine ran very well - I would still like to add a FEL to this tractor - could i use this one ??

massey fergunson front end loader heavy duty 6'bucket - eBay (item 300348000260 end time Sep-21-09 19:47:06 PDT)

also, how do you mount a FEL ... do i need to weld some custom mounts?? can you use the standard hydraulics on this tractor or am i better off adding a separate pump?? Thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

well, i went and looked at the tractor tonight .. this is what I found out ...

>> it has 2997 hours on it
>> starts up fine, but the wiring to the alternator and ignition needs replacing as they are damaged
>> no oil leaks from the weep hole besides a small amount of engine oil
>> when we first started it, it did smoke a ton, but, after about 10 minutes it ran really clean - i am guessing all of the initial smoke was due to the sitting for 18 months
>> clutch went smoothly between low to high etc ...
>> i am not sure if it had a multi pto or not ... there was a lever on the left side of the dash that you could push up or down, moving the lever made no difference though?? this was on the opposite side of the fuel lever
>> the front left wheel wobbled pretty fierce when driving it, but, the mechanic i had with me thought it just needed new bearings??
>> brakes worked well
>> PTO started up fine and ran well, but, i had no implement to hook it up to
>> 3 point hitch would lift my 250 lb brother and hold him with no issues
>> there was an area in the front corner along the bottom of the engine block next to a bolt that leaked smoke and some oil when running?? bad gasket perhaps?? this one worries me??
>> turned easily to the left, but, very difficult to turn the wheel to the left
>> no stinger pump - that was the power steering cylinder
>> rubbers were definitely worn, but, in decent shape
>> one hydraulic lever (beneath seat) was frozen up and wouldn't budge - the other lever would move

all in all, the engine ran very well - I would still like to add a FEL to this tractor - could i use this one ??

massey fergunson front end loader heavy duty 6'bucket - eBay (item 300348000260 end time Sep-21-09 19:47:06 PDT)

also, how do you mount a FEL ... do i need to weld some custom mounts?? can you use the standard hydraulics on this tractor or am i better off adding a separate pump?? Thanks.

That lever on the dash IS a MultiPower shifter. Did you shift it while the tractor was moving? If so, and nothing happened, the MP is on the fritz. Most likely, it'll be "stuck" in low range. Down side is, that'll let the tractor freewheel if you're going down a hill.

Steering issue is adjustable. Common ailment that's relatively easy to fix.

The loader you show will, for the most part, bolt right up. Internal hydraulic pump is "enough", but loader will cycle slower than some would like. Not a big deal unless you like to operate really fast.

The "area that smokes" sounds like the location of the engine breather tube. Not UNcommon to have SOME blowby. Oil from the breather tube would be alarming if it continues.

If you can, send me the serial #. It should be on a small metal tag located below steering wheel in front of shifters. That'll help determine year of tractor.

With year model, we can determine if the alternator is OEM or if it replaced a generator. That'll be helpful with re-wire. OEM alternator DOES NOT have internal regulator like most alternators today will have. Reg is under dash. Wiring is a little uncommon by "modern" standards. Service manual will have wiring diagram.

If you get this tractor, I'd HIGHLY recommend getting MF (oem) owners manual, service manual, and parts manual.

 

[gmacy]

thank you for the reply ... the tractor does come with the manual, but, I was also planning on purchasing the video series from Big Dean as I have read many good things on them ...

as far as the hydraulic levers being frozen, is that simply an issue of flushing the fluid and working them out??

based on what i have seen, it seems like this tractor at 1200 is still a good buy??

 

[gmacy]

on the FEL i posted, what is a fair price for that loader?? Thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

thank you for the reply ... the tractor does come with the manual, but, I was also planning on purchasing the video series from Big Dean as I have read many good things on them ...

as far as the hydraulic levers being frozen, is that simply an issue of flushing the fluid and working them out??

based on what i have seen, it seems like this tractor at 1200 is still a good buy??

Hard to say about the hydraulic remote valves. I'm more inclined to believe there's something siezed because of rust.

I've seen those loaders sell for $1000 to $1500.

@$1200, it's a steal.

 

[gmacy]

once more, i just really need to say thank you for all of the information!!

on the FEL ... does the 165 have the mounting holes standard for the FEL and you simply place and bolt the FEL on?? Thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

once more, i just really need to say thank you for all of the information!!

on the FEL ... does the 165 have the mounting holes standard for the FEL and you simply place and bolt the FEL on?? Thanks.

The loader you linked will attach at the rear axles, via u-bolts around the axle housing, and the front of the loader frame will bolt to a mounting point under the tractor, just behind the bellhousing. There is a clutch inspection cover there also. You'll see 4 bolt heads under the tranny housing. Some MF loaders also attach at the mounting pads just behind the radiator, as part of the steering bolster frame. You'll see 4 threaded bolt holes on each side of the tractor there. That loader you linked is a very good loader in terms of what Massey offered.

 

[gmacy]

thank you for the reply ... with a loader like that one, what parts could fail on it ... i.e. if the gaskets and hoses are in good condition, it is a simpler approach since I am using the tractor's hydraulic system, correct?? Thanks.


In addition, the seller of the FEL referenced 4 rams as opposed to 3 rams, what does that mean?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

thank you for the reply ... with a loader like that one, what parts could fail on it ... i.e. if the gaskets and hoses are in good condition, it is a simpler approach since I am using the tractor's hydraulic system, correct?? Thanks.


In addition, the seller of the FEL referenced 4 rams as opposed to 3 rams, what does that mean?

Look at the frame. If abused, they can crack. Usually the bucket will show signs of abuse if that's the case.

On occasion, some farm loaders had a single dump cylinder on the bucket (mounted in the center). That one has a pair.

That loader would be a VERY simple package since it's purpose built for that series tractor.