Metal Pieces in sump on JD 4310 During Hydraulic Service

[1Tractor2Many]

While doing a hydraulic oil service at 1600 hours, I found the pictured debris right down at the sump screen. The metal is like a sheet metal, unlike anytime I've ever had a bearing go bad. The odd thing is, the rest of the fluid was like new. There wasn't even a speck of debris when I drained from the rear plug, but when I removed the sump for cleaning, I found the debris. The tractor shows no clear signs of any issue. After finding the debris, I decided it best to at least take off the PTO cover and check around. Pulled out as much as I could reasonably pull out, nothing out of the ordinary there. No sign of the metal anywhere other than right at the sump screen. Took a flexible magnet, as the pieces are magnetic and ran it all up inside the two rear axle housings, and came out with nothing. I can't imagine how it could be coming from one of those rear axle housing and not leave a piece somewhere inside the housing. I'd hate to take those axle housings off and end up finding nothing like I did in the PTO. I'm leaning toward putting it back together, running it like it is right now, but am a little leery of really tearing something up. I found one post on another tractor site where a guy had the same debris at 250 hours, but there was no indication as to what it was or how he made out with it and the post was 6 years old. Anyone have any idea what this debris could have came from?

 

[nyone]

Those dont look like teeth do they? Does that tractor use suspended oil galleys? Like a little metal troth that brings oil to dif places.

 

[stevem5215]

That looks to me like a metal plate from when the machine was assembled. Probably a stamped plate that came with some parts in a box that got assembled and was stuck to it. Just got inside unit and ground up. It happens.

 

[1Tractor2Many]

Those dont look like teeth do they? Does that tractor use suspended oil galleys? Like a little metal troth that brings oil to dif places.

It's definitely not teeth. Well out of the entire pile there was one little tiny piece that looked like the very edge of a hardened race or gear. I'm suspecting that a piece of the other material was compressed out on the radius of a gear and possibly the pressure chipped off a small piece. Other than that one piece, the rest is like a sheet metal consistency.

 

[ruffdog]

Does it look like the cage that separates the balls or rollers in a bearing? It sure did get chewed up by going through some gears though.

 

[Tinhack]

Bearing cage would be my guess too.

The question is; Where's the bearings? Roller, ball or needle bearings are hard enough to break gear teeth. I don't see any of that.

Revision; Could also be what's left of a seal. The rubber part(s) would not show up on a magnet.

 

[1Tractor2Many]

I'm not saying it isn't a bearing cage, but if it is... it's really thin metal.

 

[dougtrr2]

How hard is it to check the sump screen? I would be inclined to put it back together and then check the screen periodically, while at the same time being extra vigilant to extraneous noises.

Doug in SW IA

 

[CoyPatton]

How hard is it to check the sump screen? I would be inclined to put it back together and then check the screen periodically, while at the same time being extra vigilant to extraneous noises.

Doug in SW IA

While not a major project, it does require a drain of fluid to inspect the screen. Remember this is located on the end of the hydraulic pump suction tube, so it is close to as low in the supply as possible.
It will
Be a huge mess if pulled without draining the reservoir first as you will drain it pulling the screen.
My suggestion, if you want the extra peace of mind, is while system is mostly drained, get a bore scope (there are now usb based scopes that are fairly inexpensive that connect to computers/tablets/phones) open a cover on the transmission/differential and do a scope based inspection of gears and bearings for damage.

 

[pmsmechanic]

While not a major project, it does require a drain of fluid to inspect the screen. Remember this is located on the end of the hydraulic pump suction tube, so it is close to as low in the supply as possible.
It will
Be a huge mess if pulled without draining the reservoir first as you will drain it pulling the screen.
My suggestion, if you want the extra peace of mind, is while system is mostly drained, get a bore scope (there are now usb based scopes that are fairly inexpensive that connect to computers/tablets/phones) open a cover on the transmission/differential and do a scope based inspection of gears and bearings for damage.

Because the op has the rear pto cover off the sump is already drained. Since removing the rear cover is not that hard of a job I would plan on doing it in the future. For now I would install some magnets in the sump. The magnets will catch any debris and if strategically placed will show you where any new debris is coming from.

I blew a bearing in the rear cover pto drive train which in turn twisted the spline off of the pto clutch drum. Once I replaced all of the parts I lined up a row of magnets around the oil screen before installing the rear cover. I figured the magnets will catch any debris that I might have missed.

 

[CoyPatton]

Because the op has the rear pto cover off the sump is already drained. Since removing the rear cover is not that hard of a job I would plan on doing it in the future. For now I would install some magnets in the sump. The magnets will catch any debris and if strategically placed will show you where any new debris is coming from.

I blew a bearing in the rear cover pto drive train which in turn twisted the spline off of the pto clutch drum. Once I replaced all of the parts I lined up a row of magnets around the oil screen before installing the rear cover. I figured the magnets will catch any debris that I might have missed.

But my statement to need to drain was to check on the screen as mentioned in the comment I replied to! Since the OP found the pieces of metal in the screen housing with a magnetic, yes it is (or was drained) but a future check requires draining again at the time in the future via my response!

 

[nyone]

Does the machine have a filter becids the suction side? If so I would attach a few strong magnets to that filter and use it like normal for a few hours then cut open the filter.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Does the machine have a filter becids the suction side? If so I would attach a few strong magnets to that filter and use it like normal for a few hours then cut open the filter.

The suction filter is just behind the step on the LH side
The pressure filter is under a plate in the center of the tractor.

 

[nyone]

Put a maginet in the fluid somewhere you can easily check/clean it without having to do a complete drain.

 

[1Tractor2Many]

Does the machine have a filter becids the suction side? If so I would attach a few strong magnets to that filter and use it like normal for a few hours then cut open the filter.

Put a maginet in the fluid somewhere you can easily check/clean it without having to do a complete drain.

That's a good idea, but I'm not really sure where you could do it and have it be reliable. There's a magnetic drain plug on it now that was empty and it was only 10 or 12 inches from where I found the schrapnel deposit.