Me installing fencing...scary!

HunterdonPaul · May 30, 2005

Hello all -

Now that I have my flats under control my wife and I are considering starting a new project. I just got a quote for a wooden fence (split rail - 1700') for my pasture and paddock. I want to replace the electric fence that is there - posts are rotten. The quote is at least 3 times less than the installed price. I want to try to install this fence and it gives me the opportunity to buy a new toy - a post hole digger. So here are my questions -

[1] Can the two of us alone do this project? Should there be more person-power around? Also I'd like to think I am a strong man but the fact is I am an office worker (engineer) who doesn't exercise. Oh and I have a pretty weak lower back, but alot of determination.

[2] How long should it take - ground is pretty soft (how many sections per day?)

[3] How long should this sort of fence last? How long until it starts looking bad?

[4] What else should I know about this project?

Thanks for your help,

Paul (of Hunterdon County, NJ)

MikePA · May 30, 2005

Last spring I intalled 1,500' feet of fencing. Total of 227 posts (187 4" x 4" x 8' PT posts plus 40 T posts, 8 feet apart) and used 3 rows of horseguardfence.com electric tape.

I started out the previous year using a post hole digger.

It took me 75 tractor hours (4 months calendar time) to dig 186 holes and put in 29 posts. Then winter came. All the holes I dug, but didn't put posts in, filled in.

Then I got a post driver.

In 39 tractor hours (5 weeks calendar time) I put in 162 posts.

Using a post driver turns a very tiring 2 step, 2 person process into a 1 step, 1 person process.

Digging post holes, even with a post hole digger, is hard work. I went through several auger tips, dozens of shear bolts and a lot of sun tan lotion just to get 186 holes dug. Then you get to put the posts in the hole, plumb them, have someone hold them while you tamp. I did not put the soil back in, I used 2A limestone (half inch down to fines) so water would drain away from the post.

My material cost was just over $4,000, not including the post hole digger or driver.

Even if you don't run into problems digging the holes, tamping in posts is tiring work. Given your line of work (I have a desk job, too.), you will run out of energy before you run out of money or time. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you go the post hole digger route;

1. Lay out the entire fence.
2. Dig the holes for a section of fencing (do NOT dig all the holes like I did)
3. Install all the posts in the section.
4. Move to the next section.
5. Get the work done in the spring when the ground is soft and the temperatures are lower, not in the summer when the ground is hard and the temps are up.

I got advice on TBN before I started, too. I was advised to use a driver for 1,500' of fencing.

Let me know if you have any questions.

HunterdonPaul · May 30, 2005

Mike -

Thanks for your reply! Sounds like alot of good advice...

Thats a long time (4 mos) - I was thinking several weekends...wow! (I won't be doing estimating any time soon)

What is a post hole driver (I just went to Carver Equipment and couldn't find one)? Where do you get one?

Did you buy your fencing from horseguardfence.com ? I was going to use post and rail (no electric) - my wife wants it more for appearance I think.

Thanks,
Paul

MikePA · May 31, 2005

Thats a long time (4 mos) 
Most of this time was weekend work and vacation time.

 Did you buy your fencing from horseguardfence.com ? 
Yes. I bought the posts at Lowe's and the mounting screws from McFeely's (stainless steel square drive.) The rest was from horseguardfence.com.

 What is a post hole driver (I just went to Carver Equipment and couldn't find one)? Where do you get one? 
Here's a link to the post driver I have. Click -----> Here. A driver can only pound in solid posts, i.e., not posts with holes for a split rail fence. Also, a driver requires a rear remote.

 I was going to use post and rail (no electric) 
One of our pastures is post (6" half round) and rail (four, 1" x 6" rails). Our horses pushed on the rails, so I had to add a strip of electric at the top. For this pasture, I thought I'd see how 3 'rails' of electric tape looked...particularly when I priced 1" x 6" x 16' PT lumber.

You might also consider high tensile. Visit Kencove for other fence ideas.

NY_Yankees_Fan · May 31, 2005

Paul,

I know you want a new toy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, but you may want to consider renting a skid steer with a hydraulic auger. I rented one from Taylor Rental on Rt 31 in Washington a few years ago when I to drill 32 12" holes for a deck. I rented it for a half day and was done in about an hour. With the skid steer you have both up and down force on the auger. With a 6" auger you could do a lot of holes in a long weekend. The key would be to mark all holes in advanced. Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ejb · May 31, 2005

I'd vote for the post driver too...after debating the issue (w/myself) for at least two years I finally broke down and bought one...in the last month I have put in over 300 posts (just weekends really). And I have really, really rocky soil (my next store neighbor is a stone quarry!).

Mine was very expensive, my plan is to use it for a few years and sell it for probably 75-80% of what I bought it for when I am done with it.

Post hole digging is still alot of work, even with an auger (at least in my soil it is).

MikePA · May 31, 2005

Tom mentions another good alternative. If I was going to drill the holes, I'd rent a skid steer with the hydraulic auger. Having said that, keep in mind that 1,700 feet of fencing means about 213 posts, spaced 8 feet apart. Don't allow too much time to pass between digging the holes and setting the posts. Depending upon the weather and your soil conditions, the holes could begin to collapse.

BTW, at $5.97 each (last years price) that's, $1,271.61 for posts. I could safely carry 26 of them at a time in my truck. I carefully stacked them on pallets to keep them off the ground and covered them (if rain was forecast)

A typical weekend consisted of;

FRIDAY EVENING
1. Get home from work and change clothes.
2. Head to Lowes (Home Depot had the same price) and buy 26 posts.
3. Stack the posts

SATURDAY
1. Use the FEL to carry a post to every pre-marked location
2. Attach the post driver
3. Drive in 26 posts.
4. Head back to Lowes and buy 26 more posts
5. Stack the posts

SUNDAY
(If I skipped church. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif)
Repeat Saturday steps.

Tom also reiterates that laying out the fence ahead of time. I used 6 cans of marking paint ($3.79 each) and a 300' tape ($29.96). I purchased both at my local Ace Hardware.

I documented every expense. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Freds · May 31, 2005

I put in 200' of 3 rail split rail fence in one day and it was my first time with this type of fence. Do one post at a time and decide if you want to be able to take the rails out at a later date or have them "locked" into place by keeping the post spacing closer.

It was already used, but didn't look "bad" like you ask, it just looks weathered and I think fits in with a country setting. I would guestimate it to be 20 years old anyway and came from a friends horse pasture.

With soft ground I don't think you should have any problem using a 3ph post hole digger. The hardest part is getting the hang of keeping it plumb, but it's not like you dig 3' deep for split rail. Getting a 12" auger bit would give you more room for error. They come in handy for planting shrubs and plants, too!

I think it would make a good project.