McCormick Deering crawler advice

[284 International]

My grandfather recently passed away, and among his things was this old crawler:

All I know about it is what I remember being told as a child. It runs on gasoline to start it, and something else (Kerosene?) once it's warm. It's a McCormick-Deering, has a 4 cylinder engine with spark plugs, and ran about 12 years ago, because I remember driving it. What do I have, and what do I do with it now that the engine is seized and I can't turn it by the hand crank? Unfortunately, I'm virtually positive that it got water down the exhaust stack.

Is this something for which overhaul parts are available? Will I hurt it to run it only on gasoline? I'm not scared of working on stuff, I just don't want to get into something that's unreasonably difficult to repair. At least now the nuisance is all in one place! :laughing:

Is this thing worth putting back into running condition? I don't want to restore it, but I'd enjoy it if it would run again. I'm nervous about hand cranking it though-I'd rather not end up with broken hands, arms, or jaw... Thanks in advance.

 

[DJ54]

I'm pretty sure that is a T20 TracTracTor, as IH advertised them. Built from 1931 to 1939. They started on gas, and once warmed up, you switched them over to distillate (kerosene), simply because it was a cheaper fuel at the time. It won't hurt it, to run on gas,although I'd reccomend adding some Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas, to help lube the valves, if and when you get it running

It should have the same engine as the F-20, and parts should be pretty easy to find. Too bad the engine is stuck, just hope it hasn't broken the block, like between the sleeves. I wouldn't be surprised if the sleeves are cracked if it had water in it for several years. If not, you may get by with just honing the cylinders, and installing new rings, if they aren't pitted.

If you could pull the plugs, and shine a bright light, or a mirrior to reflect sunlight into the cylinders to see how bad it really is. If there is moisture present, you probably ought to blow it out with an airgun, then pour in something like PB Blaster, and just let it soak. I have even gone as far as taking an old plug, and breaking the porcelain out of it, and brazing a pipe sleeve to it. Neck it down to 1/4", and put a male air fitting on it. Hook it up to a portablr air tank with 100 psi on it, and let it help the penetrant make its way down along side the piston. Of course, you'll need to remove the rocker arm, to make sure all the valves are closed.

This is one of those rare cases, where a trick we used to remove stuck pistons in old tractors and engines worked great. With the valves closed, and an adapeter like mentioned above, but reduced on down to 1/8" pipe. Screw a zerk fitting in it, and pump grease in. With a decent gun you've got 6,000 psi worth of pressure, pushing equally on top of the piston. Multiply that times the approx. 4" piston diameter, you've got a lot of pressure there..!! Of course, you'll need to remove the crankshaft first. The only problem will be, if the sleeve is cracked, you'll lose your grease, as I believe that is a wet sleeved engine.

It is definitely in pretty good shape for it's age. The side panels are missing, but I think most of those were taken off, and left off years ago.

I Googled a T20, and saw several for sale. Most at $2500.00. A definite collectable item, and probably more so to you, being it was your grampa's.

Got to tell you, there is nothing quite like the feeling of bringing old iron back to life. Go for it, if you can afford it...

 

[284 International]

Thanks for the reply, DJ54. I'm thinking I may just pull the head off and give everything a once-over. Is this an L-head type engine? I'm guessing I'll have more luck asking for specifications on the F20 motor in the Farmall forum, rather than here?

The greasegun trick is brilliant to remove a frozen piston. I've thought about using an air chuck plumbed to the spark plug hole. I'll go give it a look and see what things look like. I'm very ignorant about this thing, but would really enjoy it if I could could get it to run again. I heard nightmare stories from my grandmother about people getting hurt hand-cranking automobiles and tractors; can these be pull-started, or is the gearing too low?

 

[20 20]

WOW :thumbsup: you got a special machine there, not only is it an old reliable, but it was in the family to boot. From what I can see in the pictures it does not seem to be in bad shape, definately worth fixin. You can poor kero, or what I have also seen work is coca cola, in the engine/pistons and let it set. These old machines are not that hard to work on, see if you can get a manual, it'll be worth it's weight in gold to you. The tracks seem good how are the rollers, sprokets etc...?

That crank start can easily break a wrist, but if you pay attention you won't have a problem.

 

[flusher]

That's one neat looking old track layer. Looks to be in good shape- externally.

Check that engine over carefully--even remove the head and check the condition of the pistons, cylinder walls and valves. You may be lucky and have an engine in good shape. But old iron can be a hassle to restore.

Two years ago a bought a 1951 Minneapolis Moline BF tractor ($1300 off craigslist), not running, engine needed complete rebuild ($1600).

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...62478-mid-mount-milimeter-bf-restoration.html

I'm still reassembling that tractor as we speak.

 

[DJ54]

When you get to the point of cranking it, First..., just remember to have your thumb on the side as your knuckles, not the end of your fingers, when you grip the crank.

Second, just crank it a 1/4 turn at a time. And I prefer to be pulling up, not pushing down. If it does decide to kick, it will pull the crank from your fingers, instead of doubling your wrist back, and possibly breaking it. Don't be afraid of it, just respect the heck out of it..!! You'll be surprised how fast you can pull your hand back, if it does kick.. Or LEARN to...

I had my '36 F-12 lift me off the ground years ago, weighing in at about 180lbs. Crank spun what seemed to be 6 times, before flying off, and up in the air. I learned to set the mag to full ******, and pull up after that.. One of those things you realize Dad DID know what he was talking about..., LOL..

I don't have a manual handy, but guessing timing should be at TDC, and if the handle that operates the mag is set proper, like to the furthest setting, it may even ****** enough to fire a bit ATDC, and not fire until on the power/downstroke.

Yep, if you got something big enough to pull it, you can "bum" start it, as we used to call it. And putting it in the highest gear, will make it pull a lot easier. Not sure if they had the 3 sp. or 4 sp. trans.

I've even belted mine up to something else I have, and started them that way, if they have sat for a while.

If you can find the serial number tag, I can tell you the year. It should have the model number on it too. (T20)

You're giving me the itch to work on my old '36 F-12 that has been put on the shelf for a number of years. That will be one of my first projects when things slow down, and get moved back to the home place, and new shop up and operating.. Too many irons in the fire at the moment. Dad and I traded labor to neighbors for the F-12, my first tractor, at age 14. We got the Little Genius 2-12" plow with it too... I really want to get it going again, and go to a few antique plowing days with it...

 

[DJ54]

I forgot to mention, you may get a little more info from this site.
Red Power Magazine Community

Not taking anything away from this site, but this is strictly IH stuff.

 

[284 International]

I'll look for a serial number tag, but didn't see anything when I gave it a once-over. Where should I check? This crawler doesn't have any provisions for a PTO or belt drive that I see. Where did they mount, and how? I like the idea of hooking it up to a belt drive to spin it up. I'm going to try to pull the head off this afternoon.

 

[DJ54]

Look on the inside of the fuel tank support frame.

I don't know that they had belt pulley's on them as an option. Just saying that's how I have started some of my old wheel tractors, after setting a few years.

 

[284 International]

I couldn't find any builder tag or other numbers anywhere. The fuel tank sort of IS the frame. It rests on some bodywork, but the sides and back of the tank (near the operator) are the sides of the machine.

I began to disassemble the engine on a whim, but quickly discovered that it's not a simple, quick task. There is a lot of other stuff on top that I'd have to pull off in order to get deep enough to pull the head all the way off. It will be a tougher and more involved inspection than I want to start at the moment.

I want to get it to run, but it's going to take me a solid hour's worth or more of work just to get the head off to see what I'm dealing with, and I'd like to get it moved under some cover first, and be able to allocate the time to it. I also want to photograph it all thoroughly, too, so I can get it back together!

20 20: I don't know if the undercarriage is in good shape or not. The sprockets look....sprockety, and the tracks look....track-like. I don't know. It all seems to to be there, and it kind of rolled (crawled?) relatively easily when I drug it onto the asphalt, and it clanked and clattered when doing so. It seems like even new ones do that, thoughl. So...I really don't know. What should I look for?