Massey 175 starter has water in it

[Windy99]

Hello,
I am in need of some help with my 1974 Massey Fergurson 175. I bought a new starter for my tractor and when my starter guy took it apart it had water and gunk in it! Not sure how it got there but he told me to check my filter to see if it was wet which it was not. And he said to take the injectors loose to see if water came out which I don't know how to do. He said the pistons could have water on top of them and it could lock my engine up! He also said there was a hole in the bottom of the clutch area which was meant to drain water, and it was stopped up with grease and gunk. Can someone tell me in easy language how to open injectors and drain any water that might be there? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Harry in Ky]

You probably should provide a little more history of the situation if you expect any meaningful replies. Pulling injectors is a "last resort" type of thing in most cases. Why would there be any reason to do that? With the starter removed it's pretty simple to take a prybar and rotate the engine flywheel using ring gear teeth. Making a complete revolution in either direction will pretty much rule out the need to worry much about pistons and water in the cylinders. Maybe remove the square plate from under the clutch housing and take a look up in there for any signs of water damage. Beyond that, any details related to why you're worried about all this?

 

[Windy99]

Well Harry the only reason I pull a starter is because my tractor would not crank. It always cranks. I do what I know to do like clean ALL connections at starter, battery and ground, and alternator and that usually solves problem. I have a new battery, new starter switch and new voltage regulator over the past few years. My plan was to just put the starter in and go! Until the starter guy told me about the water in the pistons,etc. I don't know a lot about tractors which is why I got on the forum to ask questions if he was right. I can't afford to lock up my tractor! The flywheel has a lot of rust on it and I had a mechanic guy tell me rust should be no issue from starting! So, who is right???? When I bought the tractor it had a few melted wires along with gauges not working and all light connections cut off. Finally found a wiring diagram I am confident in and due to RA my hands do not work well, I couldn't squeeze connectors right and my roommate squeezed too hard and kept going thru connectors! Found a guy that said he could wire it and gave him the diagram and what I got was him basically hot wiring it to just run!!!!! $300 for nothing! I have another guy that says he can do it and I feel better about him but who knows. My goal is to have ALL gauge's work and all old wiring replaced. My goal right now is to have tractor running! I have a lot to do on the farm. I cannot afford another tractor. The metal body is off due to trying to get it wired and had a domed lid over the air intake which got blown off during a storm. The starter guy said that should not have been an issue, so I am very confused! There is a small rust puddle in the filter container. Not mush but some, like it sat there a minute. The only way I see water could have got in was thru the intake air filter area. So...do I need to worry about this or not? I will go today and see if I can turn the flywheel. If I can what does that mean and if I can't what does that mean? I hope this enough history to give some better understanding if not please let me know what else is needed.

 

[Dmacleo]

Hello,
I am in need of some help with my 1974 Massey Fergurson 175. I bought a new starter for my tractor and when my starter guy took it apart it had water and gunk in it!

why would a new starter have anything in it and need to be taken apart?
or did you replace starter some time ago and it NOW has gunk in it?

 

[Harry in Ky]

Well Harry the only reason I pull a starter is because my tractor would not crank. It always cranks. I do what I know to do like clean ALL connections at starter, battery and ground, and alternator and that usually solves problem. I have a new battery, new starter switch and new voltage regulator over the past few years. My plan was to just put the starter in and go! Until the starter guy told me about the water in the pistons,etc. I don't know a lot about tractors which is why I got on the forum to ask questions if he was right. I can't afford to lock up my tractor! The flywheel has a lot of rust on it and I had a mechanic guy tell me rust should be no issue from starting! So, who is right???? When I bought the tractor it had a few melted wires along with gauges not working and all light connections cut off. Finally found a wiring diagram I am confident in and due to RA my hands do not work well, I couldn't squeeze connectors right and my roommate squeezed too hard and kept going thru connectors! Found a guy that said he could wire it and gave him the diagram and what I got was him basically hot wiring it to just run!!!!! $300 for nothing! I have another guy that says he can do it and I feel better about him but who knows. My goal is to have ALL gauge's work and all old wiring replaced. My goal right now is to have tractor running! I have a lot to do on the farm. I cannot afford another tractor. The metal body is off due to trying to get it wired and had a domed lid over the air intake which got blown off during a storm. The starter guy said that should not have been an issue, so I am very confused! There is a small rust puddle in the filter container. Not mush but some, like it sat there a minute. The only way I see water could have got in was thru the intake air filter area. So...do I need to worry about this or not? I will go today and see if I can turn the flywheel. If I can what does that mean and if I can't what does that mean? I hope this enough history to give some better understanding if not please let me know what else is needed.

For openers, I agree with "mechanic guy" that rust on the flywheel shouldn't be an issue. Next point. Assuming the "starter guy" took the OLD starter apart, found problems and sold you a new one. Yes/no? Whatever was in the starter doesn't relate to water on the pistons, but the pry bar on the ring gear for confirmation isn't a bad thing. If it rolls over one revolution without incident, put the starter in and go for it. The wiring and gauges are a judgement call. The 175 is pretty simple in that regard. One circuit for starting with a neutral switch on top of the clutch housing under the battery tray area. All the gauges and the charging system exciter are supplied from a pressure switch under the oil pressure gauge. Yes, it could all be a mess at this point because things happen and much gets changed/modified over the years. I don't have any help for you on a wiring diagram but they're not that hard to find.

 

[Windy99]

The starter guy wanted $439 for a new starter so he said he might be able to rebuild mine and when he opened it up rust and a bit of water and rusty gunk is what we found. When I took old starter off to have it bench tested I dropped it and broke part of the solenoid and noticed it had water dripping from it. I did notice the rubber gasket on the solenoid was deteriorated. Yesterdays tractor sent me 2 wrong starters and only one left was a reman for $377 so I went with new one for $439. The second starter I was sent looked like mine but only had one screw pole instead of 2! This was done at manufacture! Just went out to turn flywheel and it does turn! yeehaw! Trying to also figure out how water got in so I can prevent it in the future. At this point it sounds like I need to put new starter on and go for it, right? Thank you, Harry, for your help. It is greatly Appreciated.

 

[Windy99]

why would a new starter have anything in it and need to be taken apart?
or did you replace starter some time ago and it NOW has gunk in it?

I was replacing an old starter. The old starter had water in it.

 

[Dmacleo]

When I took old starter off to have it bench tested I dropped it and broke part of the solenoid and noticed it had water dripping from it. I did notice the rubber gasket on the solenoid was deteriorated.

barring anything else I would lean towards that alone.

 

[lpakiz]

The water (in the bell housing/starter housing) probably is rainwater that leaked in during a rain storm. If you can put a drop on your tongue and it's not sweet tasting, it's not antifreeze and you don't have anything to worry about.
If you barred it over 2 complete revolutions without incident, put in the new starter and fire it up.
IF IF IF the starter wouldn't crank the engine over because there was uncompressable water in a cylinder, the new starter won't crank it over either.