Manure and sawdust.....

[HGM]

I've got what is probably a stupid question for you guys, but being that I grew up a city boy, here goes....

I have been reading about adding cow manure and sawdust to a garden to keep the soil fertile and loose. The question is how do I get it?

Do cattle farms harvest the manure? Would I be able to just ask the farmer and he dump a load in my trailer, could it be that simple? I just cant help but feel he would look at me like I would look at someone wanting my dog's manure.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the sawdust, I plan on stopping by the local sawmill and asking about the sawdust.

If you guys could give me an idea on how to go about accuiring these I would appreciate it. The sawdust seems obvious to me but thought you guys might have better ideas. Thanks.

Greg

 

[PineRidge]

Greg there are several folks in this area that beg us to haul away the manure. I'm sure if these same folks farmed that they would use the manure themselves rather than give it away for free.

I would recommend that you check the local classifieds as we have also seen a few ads for free manure there as well.

Be careful, try to add your manure in the fall so that it can break down over the winter. Even sawdust will rob the ground of nitrogen as it breaks down so don't apply it fresh to a growing garden.

We made the mistake one year of adding several large loads of chipped wood. It not only stunted the garden for a season but we had a lot of awesome mushrooms to boot. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[HGM]

Hmmm....

Interesting about the wood chips.. Do you think I would be ok adding it this in the next couple of weeks? That was my plan.. My tractor is in for its waranty service and I should have it back after my Thanksgiving vacation. I was going to add the manure and sawdust at the same time after the holiday, tilling it into the dirt before any really cold weather here(I know, it doesnt get not "really cold" in Georgia /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). hoping it would be ready for spring time.

Thanks for the reply. I'll check the classifieds.

 

[Bird]

Greg, my place was black clay and I tilled in all the wood chips and manure I could get. I'd say to go for it.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

A little "cross examination" first.

Is it sawdust or wood chips? Big difference. In addition, what kind of wood?

Sawdust will break down a little faster than chips. Both will use available nitrogen to decompose. That may leave your soil nitrogen depleted. On the occasions when I add sawdust to my compost pile, I usually throw a couple bags of 34-0-0 fertilizer in with it. Seems to speed decompsition, and doesn't leave soil totally void of nitrogen.

Some wood is not so good. I've always tried to avoid oak sawdust. (Tannins in the wood....) Managed to catch my neighbor last spring, about to dump a pick-up load of sawdust from treated wood on his garden. That's not a good thing either.

I prefer to let my compost age a season before tilling it in. I mix horse and cow manure, lawn clippings, kitchen scraps, and a few bags of peat moss in it. (local hdw store sells me all their busted bags of peat moss and potting soil at reduced rate at end of each summer)

Also keep in mind that under ordinary conditions, adding a lot of manure will alter soil PH, USUALLY requiring addition of lime in following years.

 

[LMTC]

When adding sawdust, leaves, anything organic to a garden... spread it in layers, sprinkling nitrogen (think high nitro fertilizer) on each layer, as it NEEDS nitrogen to decompose. If you don't it will consume the N from the ground. Don't leave it in a hugemound or pile, especially with N in it, or you may have a spontaneous fire.

ALSO---even more important. DO NOT use any sawdust that might even be tainted with walnut. Kill some plants (like tomatoes) due to high concentrations of some stuff, tannin I think is one. Try to plant tomatoes or some other plants within the root range of a walnut, and they will not grow.

There is also a book (can't remember the exact name and I am not at home) that, bar none, is the definitive book for the begninning and intermediate gardener. Got it decades ago with my Troybuilt, perhaps from Rodale press. If you email me LMTC@tds.net I'll look it up and send you the title. I used that book to transform from a city slicker who killed every potted plant his wife could buy to a certified Master Gardener (though I haven't gardened in 5 years to to business demands and health). The book is invaluable and very well organized.

 

[DrRod]

Most real farmers I know keep their manure to spread over their own fields. But horse stables typically don't have crop land and so they welcome the opportunity to get rid of it. So try calling a few places that board horses in your area.

As for sawdust, we used to go to a lumber yard and shovel it from their dumpster into our truck on Sundays. This got around and it got so popular that you had to go very early to get any. Then a company opened up to bag it and sell it for horse bedding. Being in suburban horse country, this was a big seller and the free sources dried up quickly.

In any case, its best to compost any of this before putting it in the garden. "Green" manure can get hot and burn your seeds and decomposing wood can suck up some nitrogen.

As for walnut -- yes, its a definite no no. Walnuts exhibit a property know as allelopathy -- the secretion of chemicals to defend their territory in the soil. Lots of other plants do this too -- including pecans, hickories, and even golden rod -- but walnuts are the king. They secrete a chemical called juglone and its in every part of the plant, including the leaves, so even the drip zone is affected. I can remember my grandparents talking about this when we were planning a garden but it predates them by almost 2000 years -- the Roman scientist Pliny the Elder wrote about it in 77 AD.

 

[Cowboyjg]

This is all very interesting stuff. I plan to make the move to "The Farm" permanently in the next year maybe two and would like to get my soil prep out of the way in advance so that when I get there I'm just a little ahead of the game. Am doing a whirlwind trip over Turkey day time and will retrieve soil samples for testing so I can get some idea of what I'm up against. I'm hoping I can get one more around Xmas to do some turning.

 

[Nasty135]

HGM, The manure is a good idea the saw dust is not to bad in small quantity ,the wood chips I wouldn't use.
The horse manure I usally get is from my neighbor across the street who lines his stalls with sawdust, so some of the fresh stuff has some sawdust in with it. But the better stuff is the decomposed stuff he piles out back.

I usually take what I can get..

As others have stated the wood deplete's nitrogen so if your going to use it ,be prepared to let your garden sit for a season then and/or use plenty of fertilizer...

 

[kensfarm]

There is a reason they don't use "green" wood chips.. I believe they release methane while curing.

If you have any turkey/chicken farms close by.. they use wood chips as beding so you get the combo in the manure. Higher in nitrogen then cow manure.. stinks a lot more too.. added bonus when you see a leg sticking out of the pile.

"Would I be able to just ask the farmer and he dump a load in my trailer, could it be that simple?"

Any dairy farmers close by.. probably your best bet.. they would load you up no problem.