Manual Survey

[JimMc]

OK guys, I can use your help again.

Who has the best operations and parts manuals for your implements and why?

What would help you that manufacturers don't have in their manuals?

What other input can you give on manuals or labels?

You TBNer's really know what you like and don't like and we appreciate the opportunities you give us to make our products better! Thanks!

 

[Harv]

I can tell ya what's missing from my implement manuals (mostly Howse), and that's useful information. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

What I would like to see is:

- Complete specs. Tractor guys wanna know it all -- dimensions, weight, parts explosions, bolt sizes/threads, torques, paint, etc. You couldn't possibly include too many specs.

- Limits. Anything that will keep us from shortening the life of the thing.

- Tips and instructions on how to hook it up to your tractor, how to take it off, how to store it. All in plain english -- like you were standing there talking to us.

- Practical usage tips. Make it clear what its intended use is, and how to make it happen. (We've had almost nothing but opinions here on how to use a box blade, for example. And nobody knows for sure why the rear blade is sometimes fixed, sometimes hinged, sometimes hinged but lockable.)

- Pictures to support all of the above. Lots of pictures. Good quality would be nice, even if it costs a bit. If I spend hundreds or even thousands on an implement, I don't want to hear that it costs too much to make a decent manual for it.

- A well crafted index and glossary of terms. Assume that the reader doesn't know the first thing about that type of implement, or maybe even about tractors. Many of your customers will be hooking it up to the first tractor they've ever owned.

I guess that'll do for starters, Jim. Sometimes I surprise myself how demanding I can be. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[JimMc]

Good points, Harv. I asked once before about a FAQ in a manual. I think some of your points might fit in fine there.

I think maybe manufacturers shy away from too much info because lawyers will try to turn things around on you. It's fine line to walk. If you get too specific on how to use something, there's a possibility of being misunderstood and getting sued. That could be why most manuals are a list of things "not-to-do" and warnings about misuse, rather than sources of how-to-do. For example, if I explain, in writing, how to use a cutter to mow down a large bush, and "Joe" gets hurt doing it, lawyers will crawl out of the woodwork claiming I hurt "Joe".

Not saying here we don't want to include usage instructions, by any means. Just want folks to realize there are challenges to staying out of trouble with manuals.

 

[beenthere]

We can somewhat appreciate your problems, but then you asked. I can't imagine a manual with all the answers people are going to need to know. I, for one, don't want to pay for a manual that has all the answers because it will have to be very expensive. But be sure to put just the things in the manual that "I" don't already know /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

Some 'newbies' probably need detailed manuals (They should just subscribe to TBN). A good website with the potential for contacting the mfg. is the best and cheapest way to go and the best way to reach the most who need the information. But the demand for more detail in manuals comes with selling to millions of people who don't know anything about equipment but have the money to buy the places and the equipment for those places.

I would like a manual that has good quality pictures. Lately the pictures are electronic or digital photos that are not much more than black and white, with little variation in between. Errors in manuals is what I don't like. I also don't like having to wade through the mundane, repetetive, safety jargon with the juvenile pictures (graphics) to boot. But then, back to the lawyers and those who must sue.

If we could only imagine doing without the lawyers (or limit them to just 10% of the money from a suit or settlement), we could make progress. We miss out on so much just because of the liability fears. I don't advocate a free ride for producing whatever, but I do advocate people having to take the responsibility for their own actions, and not have to find someone else to blame for every little problem they encounter. We, as a society, are getting to be a bunch of whiners. (Please don't take offense, I am not pointing that comment to anyone in particular).

 

[Ozarker]

You need to hire an out of work former technical writer for the Army........ just kidding.

Keep it simple enough for your entire audience. And that includes the average HS graduate that can't read at above the 5th grade level.

Test your manual.......... when we wrote a new technical manual, or if we decided that an existing technical manual wasn't up to snuff, we brought in some people who knew nothing about that particular equipment, handed them the manual and said do it. Then we watched and could readily see where there might be a problem and changes needed to be made in the manual.

On another note, I'll bet the first guy to market with a device that solves the problem of moving and attaching large implements such as tillers that are sitting on dirt/gravel instead of concrete will make a lot of money.

Meet The Wheel (see Attachment)

 

[Ozarker]

What do you do with The Wheel?

You buy four of them. Get some angle iron and make The Thing. (See Attachment)

You make The Thing the size you need it to be to park your tiller on. Then, with the large tires, you can move it around in dirt or gravel.

 

[GarageSmoker]

Harv;

You have their box blade? Page 13. Is that picture upside down or what? You would think they would get that part right.

GS

 

[GarageSmoker]

Some 'newbies' probably need detailed manuals .....But the demand for more detail in manuals comes with selling to millions of people who don't know anything about equipment but have the money to buy the places and the equipment for those places.



So if we weren't born with the knowledge, or born into famililies with the knowledge, what should be our fate?

1. Not allowed to buy the land?
2. Buy the land but not allowed to buy equipment?
3. Forced to but 2 of everything...1 to ruin and 1 to use after we get it right?
4. Get a divorce and "marry into tractor knowledge?

Please tell a guy who has worked hard all his life and saved enough money to get some land and a tractor what he should do if he can't get good manuals?

GS

 

[Harv]

<font color=blue>Is that picture upside down or what?</font color=blue>

Hey, you're right, Jack! It is upside down (see attached).

Wish I'd known that sooner. Could've save myself a lot of back pain and I wouldn't have all those scratches on my hood. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Fly_Rodr]

I want complete instructions, on my last implement a PHD they did not even cover connecting it to the PTO. I also would like to be told the different uses for the tool and pictures showing it in use. I would not mind this information being on a web site just note in the manual to refer you to the website. It could be an owners only part of your website, another advantage to purchasing First Choice. I would also like any accessories listed in the manual for the implement and what they do.

 

[JimMc]

Good point about accessories. Plus for the manufacturer, possible additional sales opportunities. Win - win situation!

 

[Turfman]

Re: upside down picture

Darn, I'll bet all that weight up high on the three point puts a lot of stress on it.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Jim, this <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=implement&Number=172461&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=>thread</A> will give you some great input as to some of what needs to be included in an owner's/operator's manual. Those of us who are new would appreciate it and many of those who are veterans probably wouldn't look at the manual anyhow. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[TAB]

Jim, when you mention grease or lube tell how many grease fittings or lube points there are and location. My Kubota was the first thing I have bought that told me how many fittings. I always feel like I will have a DA attack and ruin something because I missed a fitting.

 

[JimMc]

Good point. We always lubed on the farm by counting number of points greased to make sure we didn't forget any.

 

[CVHoss]

Jim,
1. More than anything else, I would like a proofread manual. If it says "see chart on page 63" and there are only 57 pages in the manual, it drives me nuts.

2. Correct information. I can live without having a whole bunch of extra information as long as the information necessary to assemble and operate the equipment correctly is complete and accurate.

3. Update the manuals when you update the equipment. Sending me a manual which does not reflect changes in the equipment is almost worse than useless. My JD 4400 manual has numerous areas that do not match the updates to the machine. The first time I ordered oil and hydro filters, I ordered the wrong ones as I used the part numbers in the manual and they did not match what was now being used on the machine. Single sheet addendums that blow away and get lost are useless. Either bite the bullet and print new manuals or at the least, keep updated manuals on your web site that can be downloaded. But if your manual doesn't match the equipment, make sure the purchaser knows it and how to obtain the correct version.

4. I know it's more expensive, but I'd be happy to pay a dollar more on the cost of a piece of equipment to get a manual with a spiral binding. Some things require you to have three hands already. Having to find another one to keep the manual from closing up on you is a real pain.

5. And, since you wanted our thoughts, here's one I know I'll never see but is on my "wish" list. Manuals printed on Tyvek (waterproof) paper so that when I get oil and grease all over them, I can wipe it off. Not necessary on something like a box blade that doesn't require much in the way of maintenance, but for more complicated pieces of equipment where you are constantly referring to the manual (usually with greasy hands), it sure would be nice.

Well, that's about it. I'm actually trying to think of some other attachment I need so I can buy something from First Choice. I've really been impressed that you are taking feedback from your customers.

Hoss

 

[CVHoss]

Jim,
One thing regarding your web site. You might have whoever is doing your website take a look at it in Netscape so they can see what those of us using Netscape see. The attachment is a screen shot of the difference. View with Internet Explorer is on top, Netscape on bottom. I understand that this is a pretty low priority, but thought I'd point it out in case you were unaware of the difference.

Hoss

 

[looch]

<font color=blue>Manuals printed on Tyvek </font color=blue>

Great idea. Instead of the whole manual, though, how about just a removeable, "quick-reference" sheet/maintenance schedule in that material. Something you could pin up or hang in the shop and even write on with dry-erase markers.

I also second the spiral ring binding.

 

[JimMc]

I realized there was a difference for Netscape users, but still scrambling just to get info up. We appreciate your patience while we get formatting up to speed.

 

[mikim]

I'd like to see a manual and IPB (illustrated parts breakdown) available on CD. Print out the pages I need for the job at hand, and I still have it in pristine condition to print it again. -- or it they're available that way now ... howcum I haven't seen anything about it? In other words - a section or cross reference of other pertinent manuals available and sources.
mike