Making your own hay not profitable

Ole_Hickory · Jun 23, 2004

As Sweet said, a Charolais bull that throws a low birth weight calf 

I would think an Angus Bull x a Charolais cow would throw a smaller calf.
Use the Angus bull on the Charolais cow.

Libertine · Jun 23, 2004

tough451:

 Cowboydoc is not bashing making hay he just stated a fact he read and shared it with us it doesnt make him wrong or right just informed. 

Never suggested he was. Further, he absolutely, certainly knows more about this stuff than I do. However, sometimes the Socratic method is worthwhile. I wasn't picking on him at all. Sorry if you took it that way.

JEH

sweettractors · Jun 23, 2004

Black bulls will throw a smaller calf and that is what some breeders do on "First Calf Heifers" and then go with the Charolias bull the rest of the time. The Charolais bull, bred to Charloais cow will have a lot higher weining weight calf to sell than the Angus-Charolias cross option--Been there and done that several times----Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New 5-6 and 7 ft Double Action First Choice Sickle Mowers*

Egon · Jun 23, 2004

There was a time in the long ago that haylofts were filled with loose hay. The procedure wasn't very complicated and surely did not require the labour involved with square bales.

Progress or regress???

Egon

HayDR · Jun 23, 2004

OLDHickory,
The best Charolais cows are not as good a mothers as even an average Angus or Angus cross cows. The Angus will give more milk on less feed. A Charolais cow will take 25% more feed during the winter than an Angus or Black Baldy cow. Stay away from 1st calf Heifers in any breed unless you like pulling calves or worring about having to be available to pull a calf.

sweettractors · Jun 23, 2004

A Charolais cow will take 25% more feed during the winter than an Angus or Black Baldy cow 

All depends on the weight of the moma cow. A 1200 lb Angus eats the same as a 1200 lb Charloais and the Charoloais will wein a calf that is heavier and currently stronger in our local markets--First calf heifers are no problem as long as you dont breed to early to the wrong bull--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *Now Stocking Livestock Feeding and Handling Supplies*

RichZ · Jun 23, 2004

I kinda understand what you're saying, Richard, but I think that you can make more of a profit with haying with good used equipment. But, in my case on my little farm, although I really enjoy haying, I'm finally coming to the conclusion that it would be more profitable to use my hayfields as more pasture for my growing goat herd, and just buy all of my hay. You actually suggested I do that in the first place, and you were right. But I don't regret my haying experiences over the past few years. I really enjoyed it, and I learned a lot.

Unfortunately, now that I have more livestock, and more chores to deal with them, I just don't have the time for haying!!! It REALLY is time consuming, and I guess if you figure in your own time, it is much harder to make a profit. I never considered my own time before, but I have to now, so I either have to hire some help for the farm or stop haying myself, and I know it'll be cheaper to buy hay than to hire help. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

nobull1 · Jun 23, 2004

quote
There was a time in the long ago that haylofts were filled with loose hay. The procedure wasn't very complicated and surely did not require the labour involved with square bales )
egon

About 8 years ago we used to make loose hay on about 6 acres.The only tractor we used was a 54 cub with a mower.We would cut a acre or two depending on the weather and let it set a day.The next day about 4 or 5 of us would shake out the hay with hay forks remember no tedder, than hope it was a good drying day.If all went well we would fork by hand in the back of our 3/4 ton than had a extension out the back and sides.Than we would take it to the barn which had sliding doors both sides and park close to the middle.The 2 arm hay fork would be drove down as far as you could get it and locked.Now the easy part hook the rope that would raise the fork to the roof to the tractor and backup.Once the fork hits the track on the roof it would slide at 90 miles a hour till you pulled the trip rope.There was just as much nack to placing the hay as any of the other jobs cause if you didn't place it right you would only get half as much hay in the pile.I hate to think how much this hay really cost us but it was usually #1.My father inlaw 75 at that time worked right long side of everyone and could put some people 60 years younger to shame /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifI'm glad we don't do that anymore /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifbut I am glad to have had the experience.One of the people I buy hay from who makes maybe 20'000 bales a years says he remembers his father talking about making loose hay as a kid.This guy is about 65 himself /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon · Jun 24, 2004

nobull1:

I was thinking about also using a rake and then a sweep to gather the bunched hay.

The easiest way that I could rember was a farmhand to build stacks and then a stack mover to bring the stacks home. Feeding was done by slowly advancing a gate made from vertical metal pipes into the stack so the cattle could access the hay.
Another way used smaller stacks and had a cutter on the front of the stack mover that would lay down a nice line of hay for the cattle.

In my opionion round bales shed water, square bales will soak it up and reduce the hay quality considerably.

The bales make for easy transportation but they are labour intensive.

Anyhow; my thoughts are away back in the dark ages as those methods are not used today.

Egon

Ole_Hickory · Jun 24, 2004

Stay away from 1st calf Heifers in any breed unless you like pulling calves or worring about having to be available to pull a calf. 

I had some Charolais x Herford heifers ( there mothers were 1st time Charolais heifers bred to a Herford bull) I bought the heifers from this guy since he had a registered Charolais herd and did not keep the cross calves,I bought a Herford bull and lost a lot of calves. I eventually sold all of my cattle and then went to Red Angus and never lost a calf or had to pull one the whole time I had the Red Angus. The Angus definately have a strong mothering instinct as well.
I never had a problem with 1st calve heifers with Angus, it does happen that you lose one or have to pull one with a Angus on occasion bought not near as much with your other breeds.

nobull1 · Jun 24, 2004

Funny it was only 8 years but how you forget.The other part of the job was using a rake with a seat on back that you made your windrows with.Never used the seat just a trip rope.Our barn has tie stalls so all animals are feed by hand the same now as they were 130 years ago.I agree with you on the round bales, the ones I purchase are left outside for up to a year and have little waste.I only wish I could use all round bales but due to our barn construction I have to feed about 2000 square for about 5 months.
As far as you being in the dark ages just come up and visit our farm and you will think you are there /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.Other than baled hay and running water we do the same as 130 years ago as far as handling the animals.Our floor is suspended 3" plank so the urine can drop through and not rot the floor and with this type of setup you cannot use a barn cleaner just a grain shovel and a strong back /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

jimg · Jun 24, 2004

Im not disagreeing about the amt of labor just who provides. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Those farms engaged in selling only usually have a clientele willing to load in the field.

Up here hay is still mostly sq baled even for cattle b/c of the high initial cost of the equipment. Also the round bales need to be moved and that cant be done easily w/o equipment. Then theres the storage issue.

Have to agree about haylofts and your plan to use first floor drive in storage. Ive done my share of working in them and its none to pleasant.

slowrev · Jun 24, 2004

Rich,
Yes for us small farmers it is cheaper to buy rolls than to hire help to do the hay.

cowboydoc · Jun 24, 2004

I agree with you on the Angus Hickory. We rarely have to pull a calf. I only lost one calf last year and that one was a twin. The mother took the one twin but wouldn't take the other one. We nursed the other one for a month but he wasn't right from the beginning and finally died.

Ole_Hickory · Jun 24, 2004

I will take an Angus over any other breed of beef cattle any day.

Less calving problems.
( 60 to 70 lb calves versus 90 to 100 on your larger breeds).
More resistant to pink eye.
Naturally polled.
Good gain on the calves
Mothers have good protective instincts.
Angus cattle winter well.
Excellent marbling qualities in the meat.
Not near as much waste on boning etc when processing.

cowboydoc · Jun 24, 2004

You're exactly right on all counts hickory. Many people confuse weight with meat. That isn't the case. Most times an angus will butcher out more than any other cattle because of the excess bone weight in your bigger cattle. The Charolais cross works for getting bigger cattle but you don't get more meat as a general rule.

Ole_Hickory · Jun 24, 2004

I was cutting teeth on Angus cattle. My Grandfather had a herd(Black Angus,my father had a herd(Black Angus) I had a heard of the Red Angus.Being a farm boy in WVa we never had more than 25 or 30 head.
Its no wonder there are more Black Angus cattle registered in the USA than anyother beef cattle.

tough451 · Jun 24, 2004

I will have to chime in on the Angus thing I have none of my own right now but Dad has about 50 head of Brood cows. In 20 + years we have lost only 2 calves 1 Due to weather one due to a Heifer that jus wouldnt accept her calf . She tried the same thing with her next calf so we sold her and bottled fed the calf.
Our biggest worry around here is getting the calves tagged or identifed as ours as most farms here also have Angus.