Making a towable backhoe truly towable.

[MoArk Willy]

I have been thinking about getting a Jansen towable backhoe.
I have little projects that I could think it could handle and I like having machinery to do some of the "heavy lifting".
I see that the "towable" aspect doesn't make it road worthy and that would be something I could see being a negative.
Rather than getting a trailer it could fit on I was looking at a different way to make it roadworthy.
If you look at the design of these machines you see that the wheels and stabilizers exchange places for towing / digging.
I seem to think that the only restriction on towing is the wheels and tires and the fact that it has no suspension.
But.....
I see that Northern Tool sells a torsion type axle that I believe could be used in place of the solid axles that come with the machine.
With the addition of hubs, you could mount regular trailer tires and wheels and the unit should be good to go.
With the addition of magnetic lights I think you could easily and legally tow it with no issue.
I would appreciate any thoughts or comments on this idea.
I have given it a lot of thought and I can't see a downside.

 

[aczlan]

Most of them the only difference in a road legal one is high speed rated tires, wheel bearings and lights. They don't generally add any kind of suspension.

Aaron Z

 

[4570Man]

Most wood splitters don’t have any suspension. They bounce around a lot but it’s alright for a infrequently towed item. I don’t imagine you’d be moving the towable backhoe very often or very far.

 

[CADplans]

I have been thinking about getting a Jansen towable backhoe.

I have given it a lot of thought and I can't see a downside.

Think how high the center of gravity is on the backhoe,, compared to a loaded trailer,,
The torsion axles would want to turn the backhoe over in certain situations,, (hitting a bump in a curve,, etc,,,)

also, the tow axle doubles as the machine wheels/tires when digging,,
the torsion axle may not do that job correctly,,, and the torsion axles would surely be heavier,,,

 

[Imold]

The tongue length makes a big difference in towing, making it a bit longer helps, short tongues are for towing around your property for the most part and a longer tongue will take the swaying out and then tires and spindle assembly is another way to correct towing, make sure there is no play in the bearing to spindle helps also, adding a washer or thicker washer between castle nut and bearing can usually help, these are just a couple little fixes for short trips, if you need to go on farther trips and run higher speeds then getting a better axle with toe in and better spindles and bearings is the best bet ( boat trailer axle ) or something like that with a longer tongue or put it on a trailer.
I am looking at buying a towable backhoe this winter( wife gave me the ok ) and I have been watching videos and seeing what others have done to theirs to correct the towing issues, seems to be the same, tongue and tire runout.
I will be towing mine about 11 miles each way being I don稚 want to leave it out at my property when I am not there.

 

[MoArk Willy]

Well you have given me food for thought.
I know that the Harbor Freight "trencher" has larger, DOT tires and no suspension.
As far as distances...I see nothing farther than 12-15 miles one way. And I have seen the log splitters bouncing along the highway.
It's that bouncing that I hope to avoid and I though perhaps suspension would keep it from bouncing on the tires.
As it is the wheelbase is a little over 5' so I don't expect it to be tippy. Perhaps the torsion setup would do as CADplans said and make it more susceptible to turning over.
That I didn't consider.
As far as the torsion axles affecting the digging aspect....I do not believe that they would affect that negatively.
When digging, the outriggers are keeping the machine stable almost working as a lever. If anything the torsion spring arrangement with larger wheels and tires may be an effective counterweight.
I have considered buying a larger trailer. Now I use a small 4 X 6 for hauling tools and scaffolding from time to time. No real need for a larger trailer at this time.
But if I do buy one I am sure I will utilize it Just trying to avoid spending $1000 or so on yet another wheeled item that will sit more than it gets used.
But thanks again for all of your concerns and comments.

 

[Imold]

I will be buying a HF Trencher (wife gave me the ok) but I think I will wait till spring due to warranty, was going to order mine this week but then I figured it is winter and I will not use it till spring and the warranty is from date of purchase so it does me no good to have it sitting in a garage not being used and loosing the warranty.

One thing that was done is to drill and put a pin in the seat pedestal so it will not spin going down the road rather then using a bungee cord, thru the months and last few years I have watched a lot of the HF Trencher videos to the point I need to find new ones hahaha they get old but when spending 3300.00 dollars including tax I want to make sure it will be a good investment and from what I have seen it would be a good deal if you have the use for one plus it has a lot of potential for doing add on’s.

One of the biggest mistakes made is using a cheap hydraulic fluid, from what I have seen cheap fluid can cause valve problems or most valve problems are due to cheap fluid, upgrading the hydraulic filter setup to a good 10 micron is also mentioned as a plus to avoid any possible issues and of course replacing the pins for wheels and struts is definitely on the list.

I will have a lot of the extras before I get the trencher so when it arrives I can do a lot of the changes right away.

 

[MoArk Willy]

I will be buying a HF Trencher (wife gave me the ok)

Can I ask what made you choose Harbor Freight?
That was my first choice because of price and familiarity with the company, but I have done a lot of research and I keep leaning towards the Jansen.
I have no first hand experience with either but the Jansen seems a bit more sturdy. I have seen a lot of video where people have upgraded the Harbor Freight for speed and comfort.
I think the Jansen already has a suspension seat and does move a bit faster. It also seems a bit more compact and that will suit me better.

 

[Imold]

Jansen is nice from what I have seen and I like their controls and the overall appearance is nice but I feel that the HF would be easier to find parts for and fix for me especially living out in a rural part of the country plus it has a lot more feedback/reviews, price does come into the equation too being the trencher will be sitting 5 months out of the year due to winter and with the 1000.00 dollar total difference I can replace the seat, put a higher flow pump on to speed it up and a bigger motor and still be a head in total cost by a few hundred dollars.

I guess what it comes down to is personal preference between the two trenchers and maybe if I lived in Arizona or around there I might be more inclined to go with the Jansen being they say all parts are available I just like the HF better.

 

[Ken M]

I bought my HF backhoe in May 2008. I was in the process of making my own but that project kept getting stalled. So after about 3 years I broke down and ordered the HF from the local store (no shipping cost). They said I could return it in 30 days if I wasn't happy. To my surprise it was probably better, heavier built than what I was building. I sold my "kit" of misc parts I had made.

You can search this forum for these units and get more comments. Some will dis-credit these units as not being a "real" machine but for small jobs that are too much to dig by hand or too small (or pricey) to hire out, mine has worked well. I have a very rural 2.5 acre yard. My HF trencher has done some serious work...although not as fast as a full backhoe. I've dug up and replaced a couple of drain pipes. Dug out old fence posts. Dug/pulled out numerous small trees. We have a small pond and I use it to remove the small willows and ditch lillies that invaded the banks. I recently dug a 25 foot x 18" deep trench for an electric conduit to the pole building that was all broken bricks and tile.

The HF looks to be a longer machine and maybe has a longer reach than the Jansen? I'm not familiar with that unit. With this type of machine you cannot lift a heavy load UP well unless you have the outriggers firmly planted and are pulling against them. For light digging I often leave the wheels on the front and have the hitch end attached to the tractor. This makes for easy and quicker manuvering. Moving with the outriggers is a slow "crab" like manuver. I usually add extra weight to the tractor hitch if using it that way because you WILL tend to lift the tractor if you try to lift too hard. I often use behind my 16 hp Cub Cadet but the New Holland TC-21 is a better (heavier) choice.

The only modification I have done is to extend the hitch out about 2 feet to allow easier manuvering when backing the unit around (less jack knifeing). I did add a small plastic bottle for a hydraulic tank overflow to catch an occasional squirk of oil out the vent hole. I have gotten pretty good with the single function controls so do not feel any need to alter.

If you intend to tow on the road you might want to take a hard look at the bearings, wheels, tires. The HF might not be rated for road speed. Also (depending on your state laws) in Ohio a single purpose trailer like a log splitter, cement mixer (or this bakchoe) does NOT need a licence OR lights. You might check into that.

KenM Louisville, Oh

 

[Imold]

I will be using the one I get much like you are using yours Ken, I will see how it does hooked up to just the scut and then with the down riggers on, I am also adding two wheels and axels so I can move it easier by hand when not using it.

I will wait to order mine till spring so I can at least get to use the 30 day return policy and the warranty, no reason to have it in my garage for 4-5 months not being used.

 

[California]

I have been thinking about getting a Jansen towable backhoe.
Rather than getting a trailer it could fit on I was looking at a different way to make it roadworthy.
think that the only restriction on towing is the wheels and tires and the fact that it has no suspension.
But.....
I see that Northern Tool sells a torsion type axle that I believe could be used in place of the solid axles that come with the machine.
With the addition of hubs, you could mount regular trailer tires and wheels and the unit should be good to go.

I'm always thinking cheap and simple as the basis for a new project. How's this to upgrade it for highway towing: Buy HF's little 4x4 trailer and adapt that as an undercarriage for the Jansen. Wheels, tires, spindles, axle, suspension, lighting and wiring, are already included in the minimal price. A Certificate of Origin too, if you need to apply for a license plate. This might avoid the need to tow it to DMV, if a safety inspection is required for home-built.

I have two of the little trailers. One I built as a 'jeep trailer' for offroad camping, the second one I bought used and already 20 years old, and put a watering tank on it to tow around the orchard. Two things I've learned: 1) Put a 2 inch ball hitch on it so it matches your other utility trailer. 2) for road use run about 24 ~ 28 psi in the tires to stop the leaping and hopping. Per a tire inflation chart 24 psi is the right pressure for the little weight I carry in the camping trailer. I also suggest the 8 inch tire version so your rig isn't as tall. And the longer tongue Imold suggested is a good idea so its not like backing a cement mixer.

 

[Ken M]

As far as moving by hand, say for storage... If you leave the boom extended just a little bit it will almost balance (or over-balance) the machine over the wheels. It's reasonably easy to manuver it into a corner of my pole building or to just get it onto the trailer ball. And I am on hard dirt or grass but faily level. I bet if you made a clamp-on bracket for the hitch end and mounted say an 8" castered wheel it would roll well. This would be very easy for me to add because I have that extended hitch on the machine. If you have not actually seen one of these HF machines you might be surprised at how heavy they are.

Waiting til spring to buy sounds like a smart move. If you are lucky they do go on sale occasionally.

I would suggest taking a hard look at the wheels and weight capacity of those cheap HF trailers. Running gear may not be rated for more than 50 mph or more than a couple hundred pounds. They might be ok for really light use.

KenM Louisville, Oh 11-12-19

 

[Imold]

Every once in a while I see HF puts them in their add for around 2699.00-2799.00, it has been awhile since I have seen them on sale but I am watching and and anything I can save on the price helps pay the tax.
If it does go on sale before spring I might just have to chance it and buy it early, hate to lose the 30 day return or the warranty, I should see if they offer a extended warranty on it and if they do for a reasonable price maybe that would be the way to go for me.

As I watch the adds week by week month by month. The only thing better would be if the Fargo store had one in their back room for some reason, wishful thinking.

 

[California]

...I would suggest taking a hard look at the wheels and weight capacity of those cheap HF trailers. Running gear may not be rated for more than 50 mph or more than a couple hundred pounds. They might be ok for really light use.

The little 4'x4' trailer is rated 1,000 lbs. It is HF after all so I wouldn't load it above 3/4 of that for highway use. The frame is flimsy and light but the backhoe would provide the needed stiffness, same as the plywood deck usually applied.

As for the suspension that's much stronger than I expected. My watering tank on that now 30 year old 1,000 lb rated 4'x4' trailer weighs 2,600 lbs starting out loaded, and I'm dragging it over disced ground so climbing over continual big dirt clods. I expected the 1988 8 inch tires would burst immediately but they are still good. After two years of that abuse I replaced them with 12" automotive tires only because pulling those tiny tires in the plowed ground was like towing a sled.

Maybe this backhoe is too heavy for the tiny HF trailer. But in my two applications, the jeep trailer and the watering trailer, they work ok.

 

[PILOON]

OK, I owned one so I can supply input.

Towable is for a short distance, not highway distances.
For stability you don't want any suspension, just stability when digging.
Mine did it's job, paid for itself a many times over and I sold it for my original cost later on.
My buyer also made great profits and got a great return (envious) when he sold it but then he was in a better position to sell.
They do have there place but won't replace a backhoe.
OK for a DIY with some time on hand,
Don't expect to load a 10 wheeler or expect to excavate a foundation.
Handy, but not a tracked excavator.
Great to prepare hedges, make ditches

 

[California]

OK, I owned one so I can supply input.

Jansen or HF?

Did you use it attached to a tow vehicle to anchor it, or standalone? Did it need any major repairs?

It's good to read you made some money with it!

 

[PILOON]

Jansen or HF?

Did you use it attached to a tow vehicle to anchor it, or standalone? Did it need any major repairs?

It's good to read you made some money with it!

Mine was called a "ToeHoe" and we used it standalone.
And it had been very abused but still worked.
Motor was a simple 5 hp 4 stroke but power was awesome as hydraulics did the work.
4 valve controls were somewhat jerky to operate but U soon learned.
Main downside was that due to stability the boom lift height was restricted so you could barely fill the lowest trailer, about 3 ft as I recall.
We once dug a 3 ft deep trench for close to 400 ft on the most treacherous rocky terrain downhill to a lake waterfront for a water intake.
No wheeled backhoe could have done that and probably not even a tracked digger either, and I was a frequent user of that sort of equipment.
The wide stance of the 'legs' is what made it stable as well as the low center of gravity.
One other restriction was the swing angle as it was not as wide an angle as a normal backhoe but still adequate.

Note my comments are for the specific model that I had and might not apply to other brands.

 

[MoArk Willy]

An update of sorts.
Jansen did respond to me regarding towing on / at highway speeds.
"We have customers towing the machine on the highway. They bought 55 mph wheels.
We stay away from the liability and think it is not safe to tow the machine at highway speeds and encourage customers to load them
on a trailer. Some states require lights, in some states you don't need lights as long as the lights of the towing vehicle are visible."

I think for the limited times I would be moving the machine, upgrading to larger DOT approved wheels may be the way to go.
At least until I bite the bullet and get a larger trailer.
Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

[Imold]

I ordered my HF Trencher today with a extra pair of axle/ hub assemblies, was close to getting a Jansen even emailed them back and forth yesterday and this morning but at a 1100.00 difference being HF has the 15% off everything sale I saved 450.00 on the HF trencher which covers tax and delivery, it came to 2849.99 total plus the extra axles at 140.00 for the pair delivered.