Machining metal parts

[5030]

As for proper education like 5030 said, I'm gonna give some pushback on that. Define proper. In my humble opinion, youtube and just time spent on the machine is proper enough to get going.

Guess it all depends on how much scrap, broken tooling and mishaps you want to make.. YT is nothing more than a conglomeration of people who, for the most part don't know what they are doing. Some do, most don't For me YT is strictly entertainment.

 

[GeneV]

Guess it all depends on how much scrap, broken tooling and mishaps you want to make.. YT is nothing more than a conglomeration of people who, for the most part don't know what they are doing. Some do, most don't For me YT is strictly entertainment.

Well let me put on my Caption Obvious cap, but you're a union tool & die guy, what's youtube gonna teach you lol?

Actually, YOU could teach on youtube, and you should if you got the knack for that sort of thing. I didn't start machining til around 2000, and I picked up lots of machining education on youtube, it helped me immensely. I don't remember all the guys I subscribed to back than, Tubalcain was one. And btw he's still around!: Mr. Pete 222

As far as how much scrap, broken tooling and mistakes to make, well that's all part of the experience, and in my opinion, not the the worst way to go at it. A smart man may avoid mistakes, but a wise man learns from them.

 

[5030]

Well let me put on my Caption Obvious cap, but you're a union tool & die guy, what's youtube gonna teach you lol?

Actually, YOU could teach on youtube, and you should if you got the knack for that sort of thing. I didn't start machining til around 2000, and I picked up lots of machining education on youtube, it helped me immensely. I don't remember all the guys I subscribed to back than, Tubalcain was one. And btw he's still around!: Mr. Pete 222

I'll pass.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I've been machining since 1972 7th grade machine shop....and I hate to grind or sharpen tools. I avoid it like the plague if at all possible...

Give me a factory grind....or give me the day off. So I have the bare minimum of tool making/grinding experience. I make 95% of our parts on the CNC machines we have. And consider that I work in a prototype environment, where I usually make only 1 or 2 of anything.

Even with a good drill grinder, it's almost impossible to beat a factory grind....unless you have a factory worthy grinder. At one place, as the manufacturing engineer, I had a rule of thumb to throw any dull drill away 1/4" and lower, because it costs more to re-sharpen than to replace.

Most consumer grade (and some that cost thousands) drill sharpeners are pretty crappy IMO. Carry on.

 

[etpm]

I have been machining stuff, mostly metal, but also plastics, ceramics, wood, glass, and composites, et al. For over 40 years. I guess it's been 46 years. Somewhere along the way I became a machinist. And now I'm pretty good. And I have encouraged lots of folks to try their hand at machining. Many of them my customers. I encourage anyone here to do the same if they desire. Like any skill it must be acquired by doing and learning, osmosis doesn't really work. So just standing next to a machinist is not really gonna improve your skill. But getting a machine, some cutting tools, a file, and etc. is a first good step. A person needs to be careful watching YouTube because there is all sorts of bad advice to be found there. But there are all kinds of books available that teach basic machining techniques. One very good resource is the Workshop Practice Series series of books. These books are not heavy tomes and each one only covers a narrow range. Some are for rank beginners and some for fairly advanced machinists. The subjects are quite varied. These books can be checked out from some libraries but can also be found online from various sources. New and used. And used books are fine, the information they contain doesn't wear out no matter how many times it gets used. Another book, necessary if you are serious about machining and machines, is Machinery's Handbook. This IS a heavy tome, but it is jam packed with extremely useful information. This book is expensive but older editions are fine. And cheaper. Much of the information does not change and never will. My 28th edition has in it a bunch of stuff that is in my 5th edition from 1918. The 20th edition would be fine for anybody starting machining. So, if you want to machine stuff then do it! Break some tools, scrap some parts, then make some good stuff. Later you will look at some part you made and marvel a little bit that you made it and it worked. Don't be afraid. machining is fun and rewarding. And even beginners with little experience can and do make good parts. Sometimes the part saves the day, sometimes it just looks good, and sometimes impresses nobody but yourself. But still rewarding and fun.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[GeneV]

I've been machining since 1972 7th grade machine shop....and I hate to grind or sharpen tools. I avoid it like the plague if at all possible...

Give me a factory grind....or give me the day off. So I have the bare minimum of tool making/grinding experience. I make 95% of our parts on the CNC machines we have. And consider that I work in a prototype environment, where I usually make only 1 or 2 of anything.

Even with a good drill grinder, it's almost impossible to beat a factory grind....unless you have a factory worthy grinder. At one place, as the manufacturing engineer, I had a rule of thumb to throw any dull drill away 1/4" and lower, because it costs more to re-sharpen than to replace.

Most consumer grade (and some that cost thousands) drill sharpeners are pretty crappy IMO. Carry on.

I just got a drill doctor, $135. It sharpens up to 3/4", does a pretty good job of it. It also does a split point, but that feature kinda sucks, it under cuts the point so it's more chisel point than split point, especially on smaller bits. Still, for $135, I'm happy with it overall.

 

[wdchyd]

I hate regrinds too, but sometimes you just need to get the job done at the moment.
I have worn out two drill doctors, not sure but seems like the plastic housing wears and cuts the point wrong. Years ago I picked up a Sterling drill grinder and it works awesome above 1/2” to 2 1/2”.

 

[3Ts]

Those are impressive twist drills and I'm sure they are very expensive. But, what would they be used for? I thought that anything over 1" would be an annular cutter.

I've gotten to the point that re-sharpening tools has become important. I've been doing woodworking for many years and sharpening chisels and planer blades require frequent touchup. But, I agree, some things it's better to just replace the tool that to try sharpening it. I do have a drill doctor and it does better than I can do freehand, but like was mentioned, smaller sizes are just replaced.

 

[3Ts]

As for youtube - there are some videos where the person obviously knows more than I do so I'll see what they offer, but also compare it against others to see if it's really correct information. Then there are those that have no clue what they are talking about and trying to portray that they are an expert in the field, those people can be dangerous to others.

FYI, y'all have been very helpful, I don't have a mill yet but what I thought would be good has changed and need to ask the CFO for a bigger budget. I also had never heard of a coaxial indicator so I looked it up, what an amazing tool! And comments about the brands of mills has been helpful since I've never heard of most of them. I do subscribe to a machinist magazine so I'm gradually getting educated on all this. If anyone knows of a forum on machining that they think would be helpful please let me know.

 

[jthibodeau89]

I follow the Practical Machinist and The Hobby-Machinist forums.

 

[GeneV]

I follow the Practical Machinist and The Hobby-Machinist forums.

Also Home Machinist.

 

[GeneV]

I hate regrinds too, but sometimes you just need to get the job done at the moment.
I have worn out two drill doctors, not sure but seems like the plastic housing wears and cuts the point wrong. Years ago I picked up a Sterling drill grinder and it works awesome above 1/2” to 2 1/2”.

Thems some big drills, what you doing with them?

What wore out on the drill dr, you mean the chuck as it rides against the cam? What I do notice is that the 2 grabber thingies don't always align the drill bit properly (and yes I am making sure they're sitting on the flat sides of the drill), and when I'm grinding I'm getting negative relief. So I just loosen the chuck and realign the drill bit slightly by hand to get it grinding proper.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Those are big morse taper drills, and they belong in a big Cincinnati Bickford radial arm drill press! BTDT!

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Maybe if they'd put a cubic boron nitride wheel in a drill doctor, it might help.

 

[sandman2234]

Versatility, that always helps! To quote a guy on a different forum, when discussing a Fray All Position Mill, "it has more moves than a hoochie dancer". I had one I gave to a very good friend because he was using a 3 in 1 machine. It had it's issues with the 30 International taper and the missing backgears (I had a set to send with it). He has made it a quite a machine by adding digital readouts and power axis.
I have another machine, a Maho 600P that is a point to point CNC machine, but it's advantage is it has handles! A Universal machine, with horizontal and vertical capabilities, along with a vertical bed, with a horizontal attachment for a horizontal bed. Power for this might be a issue, but I also have a transformer for it to get it to a more available power supply.
Wonder if 3Ts wants to make a trip halfway across the US for a mill that would do most anything he could ever want it to do? Weight in the neighborhood of 5500 pounds, won't be an easy trip home. Probably a lot cheaper than a Bridgeport (which is the one I use)
How many of you would consider a mill like this for a newbie? It was part of a shop sellout that I purchased, but have never used. The shop purchased it from an AT&T research lab, to do a single job, which was to make a "one off" part, just one time. Wear isn't something it has...
David from jax

 

[GeneV]

As for youtube - there are some videos where the person obviously knows more than I do so I'll see what they offer, but also compare it against others to see if it's really correct information. Then there are those that have no clue what they are talking about and trying to portray that they are an expert in the field, those people can be dangerous to others.

FYI, y'all have been very helpful, I don't have a mill yet but what I thought would be good has changed and need to ask the CFO for a bigger budget. I also had never heard of a coaxial indicator so I looked it up, what an amazing tool! And comments about the brands of mills has been helpful since I've never heard of most of them. I do subscribe to a machinist magazine so I'm gradually getting educated on all this. If anyone knows of a forum on machining that they think would be helpful please let me know.

To locate center, you mean? I mean, unless you're really needing 0.0001" tolerance!

I just use a wiggler edge finder to locate center. Cheap little tool, super easy to use, and is definitely accurate enough for my purposes.

 

[wdchyd]

Those are big morse taper drills, and they belong in a big Cincinnati Bickford radial arm drill press! BTDT!

Those are used on several good sized engine lathes. The 5MT will fit the larger 26x120, 20hp. The 4MT works for the 21x60 15hp CNC lathe. Used mainly for opening up solid stock to make glands and collars before boring/threading etc.

Photo Storage

Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!

app.photobucket.com

 

[MickeyDBC]

Versatility, that always helps! To quote a guy on a different forum, when discussing a Fray All Position Mill, "it has more moves than a hoochie dancer". I had one I gave to a very good friend because he was using a 3 in 1 machine. It had it's issues with the 30 International taper and the missing backgears (I had a set to send with it). He has made it a quite a machine by adding digital readouts and power axis.

If you think the Fray is complicated, take a look at a Brown and Sharpe Ominversal (especially with the optional vertical head). I think it has something like 9 axis that can get out of whack. You can do almost anything with it if you have six months to set them up.

 

[MickeyDBC]

To locate center, you mean? I mean, unless you're really needing 0.0001" tolerance!

I just use a wiggler edge finder to locate center. Cheap little tool, super easy to use, and is definitely accurate enough for my purposes.

If you think that a coax is cool, take a look at a Haimer gauge. It will quickly you find your X, Y, and Z within half a thou. Next best thing to a Renishaw probe (they will repeat tenths all day long and auto calibrate).

 

[newbury]

Well I found this thread extremely interesting.
My Father was a "master" machinist at IBM Burlington in the 1960', 70's and '80's would frequently make "special" parts, but he did not "bring his work" home so to speak.
But he did leave me with a love of good tools.

OP - in your quest for tools do not overlook public surplus auctions. Often schools will sell good equipment at very low cost.

Attachments

• 
  ForumRunner_20131014_174713.jpg

  121.4 KB · Views: 565
• 
  20140427_103025.jpg

  806.1 KB · Views: 786

I got all the woodworking equipment on the left for $800. The Kubota M4700 tractor cost $11,500.
All the woodworking equipment was "excessed" in good condition because the school needed to use the space for a computer lab.
You have to be able to tell if the equipment has been abused, but often it hasn't.

Currently there is a Bridgeport Mill Machine for auction in Ann Arbor, MI with bidding up to $500, condition listed as "GOOD".

good luck