Backhoe M59 Dipper Stick Force

   / M59 Dipper Stick Force #1  

caballero59

Bronze Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
71
Location
Buena Vista, CO
Tractor
Kubota L39, M59, ZD326, Deere 6415
Hello to all. I just picked up an M59 and am tremendously impressed with the operation of the HST. I have been using an L39 with GST for several years and prefer gears in general but the HST handles like a dream. This M50 has 130 hours and the dipper stick will not lift the back of the tractor when it is fully extended, pointing straight back, with the bucket teeth pointing straight down. I actually have to retract the dipper stick several feet closer to the tractor before it will lift the back of the tractor off the stabilizers. My L39 will lift the tractor with the stick fully extended so this surprised me. Can someone else with a 59 weigh in on this and give me their experience so I can get an idea if this is normal. As a side note, it also seemed to me that the thumb force was a little weak but I've never had a hoe with a thumb before so I'm operating blind here. I would really appreciate hearing about someone else's experience.

Scott
 
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   / M59 Dipper Stick Force #3  
On a backhoe, with the Dipper fully extended, the geometry for max power is usually less than ideal.

That, and a 8400 pound machine with 4700# max Dipper force.....

Does the machine seem to dig alright? Lifting the back of the machine with a fully extended Dipper isn't something I have ever had to do, nor ever had the desire to do.
 
   / M59 Dipper Stick Force
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It digs. I don't know what is normal. It would be nice to compare it to another M59 of known performance. It's probably fine. I'm not in the habit of lifting the back of the machine with an extended dipper but it is a quick test of performance, hydraulic pressure, and to test for change in the machine. Great machine overall. I hope the HST+ is reliable because its incredibly convenient,
 
   / M59 Dipper Stick Force #5  
OK....you made me curious so I just went out and tried that test on our M59. Ours is one first M59s made, a thousand hours on the clock, and it is stock i.e. No additional wheel weights or tire fill. I didn't know what to expect - honestly I had my doubts the backhoe would lift the tractor at that geometric disadvantage - but I had to give it a try. Kinda hate to tell you this, but ours did the tests easily. No hesitation at all. Sure surprised me. Are your tires loaded? Would that make a difference? I set it up at our typical warm-up idle of 1000 rpm and left the front loader bucket vertical and jammed into the ground. Did not lower the backhoe legs at all. With the boom and dipperstick fully extended and the bucket teeth pointing vertically I first tried the boom cylinder. Not surpisingly the boom cylinder easily lifts the rear and front wheels of the tractor while pivoting on the edge of loader bucket.
Then I tried your test doing the same move but using only the dipperstick cylinder. That way the geometry is more difficult because it requires that the backhoe not only lift the whole tractor off the ground, but since the dipperstick rotates as it lifts it also has to drag the loader bucket backwards through the ground. I wouldn't normally do that; using the dipper cylinder alone without the boom cylinder to aid it isn't the kind of move I'd make when digging. It seemed to me that doing that puts a lot of stress on the system, but to my surprise the backhoe didn't seem to care. At that same rpm it lifted the tractor even though it had to drag the loader bucket backwards through the dirt at the same time. My dirt driveway now has a couple of new divots ... :)

Next I extended the bucket all the way so it was flat on the ground pointing out away from the tractor and tried the same tests again. That's an even more difficult geometry with even less leverage, but there was no difference except to prove that the BH will also lift and drag the tractor simply by rotating the bucket when fully extended.

None of the tests loaded the tractor motor or caused any hesitation at all. It did it all easily without even noticing. The over-all impression was that the backhoe didn't know or care whether it was lifting the tractor or not. It has way more than enough power to do any of those tests. That's not always good because the M59 backhoe can sure throw the tractor around when working. Several people have remarked on that.

All the tests were at fast idle with the throttle set at about 1000 rpm. I usually warm it up at that rpm, and rev up to maybe 1250 rpm when doing backhoe work in rocky ground. Digging in regular dirt is much easier on the machine and so for that I'll rev up to about 1400.

You might want to check the system hydraulic pressure on yours. I've heard that some M59s came from the factory with the hydraulic pressure set differently and apparently it is an simple adjustment. I'm betting it is something simple.

On the HST+, in ten years now I haven't heard of anyone having problems with the tranny. I agree; HST+ is very convenient.
Let me know what you find out,
rScotty
 
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   / M59 Dipper Stick Force #6  
Have you done all your testing with the front bucket either on or off the ground? It'll make a big difference when trying to lift the rear of the machine.
 
   / M59 Dipper Stick Force #7  
Have you done all your testing with the front bucket either on or off the ground? It'll make a big difference when trying to lift the rear of the machine.

I couldn't tell whether Caballero59 did his test with the front bucket down or not. Re-reading his first post, I see that he had the stabilizers down and I did not...but I'm thinking that shouldn't make any difference. Either the BH will lift the tractor or it won't.

Like you, I thought that it would make a big difference whether the front loader bucket was down or not, so I tried it first with the front bucket vertical and in the ground because that seemed the more difficult case. To my surprise it turned out that it didn't make any noticible difference. Ours is a stock M59 without any additional wheel weights or fluid-filled tires, and the backhoe just doesn't seem to know or much care that it is connected to a little ol' tractor.

BTW, the strength of the backhoe is why I prefer to do my hoeing at low rpm. Slower engine speed keeps the hoe from throwing the tractor around so much.
Otherwise hoeing in rocky ground can be a lot like riding a bucking horse who has gotten his head down.
rScotty
 
   / M59 Dipper Stick Force
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I haven't checked this thread for a few days but those are interesting results. Thank you for taking the time to test yours. I will check my pressures. Does this require some simple gauges or is this complicated test equipment?
 

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