Lung cancer is not fun

[Steve C]

...4 packs a day.....Are there really people who smoke that much..i think i'd be sick.I quit smoking a pack a day 10 years ago at 23 when we had a baby but stupidly returned to smoking maybe 2 packs a week with a few beers in the evenings and has become habit...I think maybe cold turkey on both vices is next..!

I worked with a guy years ago at the Midland Nuclear plant and at Dow Chemical in Midland who probably smoked more than that. One side of his face was stained yellow from the smoke rising up as he bent over his drafting board. His hand was also stained yellow.
His Name was Al Leadholm.

He is one of those charactors you run into once in a while in life that was probably only one wrong turn on the road of life away from greatness. He was very smart and atheletically gifted, in spite of his drinking and smoking habits. He had survived being fragged out of a Vietnam hotel room as an "Advisor" in the late 60's and was collecting a medical disability. He would shoot sub par golf without even trying and he was unbeatable on a billiard table or bowling alley and this was after he had wrecked his body from years of abuse.

One day I thought his cubical was on fire due to the clouds of smoke that was wafting up over the walls.

I jumped up and ran over there to see what was going on. He had 8 cigarrettes burning at one time. There were 7 in the ash tray on his reference table and one in his hand.

It seems that he would work at the reference table for a while and set one down in the ash tray, then he would turn to work on his drawing and forgot he already had one going and light another one. He repeated this process until it looked like the building was on fire.

In fairness I should mention that this was an unusual event. On a normal day he rarely had more than 2 or 3 burning at the same time. My cubical was directly accross from his. I got my nicotene buzz for free.

 

[D7E]

My father told me a story like that about his math teacher in school.....The room was always blue with smoke with 30 kids in there..?

 

[Bird]

My father told me a story like that about his math teacher in school.....The room was always blue with smoke with 30 kids in there..?

In the late '50s, our family doctor smoked a pipe with Carter Hall pipe tobacco, and when he was talking to patients; i.e., not physically doing an exam or some such procedure, he was smoking that pipe while sitting in the room with a patient.

And when my wife had a "lumpectomy" for breast cancer, I think she must have had the most popular surgeon in the county. And one day, we found him standing outside the hospital smoking a cigarette. I said, "Doctors are always telling us to quit smoking" and he grinned and said, "Not me."

Personally, I smoked a pipe for more than 5 years before changing to cigarettes. And for 5 years I was a postal clerk. During that time, five of us got to be friends and made a game of sorting mail so we got a reputation as the fastest, most accurate clerks there. And of course, I nearly always had my pipe in my mouth, so one day I heard my supervisor tell someone, "Bird can't sort mail until he gets a cloud of smoke going around his head."

 

[D7E]

I know that my doctor smokes and drinks as i've watched a game with him on many occasions....

 

[Dargo]

You know there was a study published over 20 years ago that concluded the smokers were also the best workers. Naturally, it didn't get much publicity. Even the guy who did the study was hoping it would show the opposite since he was anti-tobacco. His conclusion was that smokers are "addictive personalities" so they must also get addicted to their work.

Sorry Bird, but as an employer, I have to call you out on this one. I've stated clearly before that I believe an adult in our country should be able to smoke, drink etc. as they please. It's a free country. It's only when their consumption or 'partaking' has an adverse affect on others I see a problem. However, to even remotely claim that smokers are the best workers is completely absurd. Whatever "study" you seem to recall obviously must have been one put out by a tobacco company! Smokers can, and do, make good workers. But to say they are the "best workers" is way, way off base. No logical or credible source would state as much.

I do make smokers pay the additional surcharge I'm charged for their health care. I also offer to pay, once, for a smoking cessation program for them if they desire to enroll in such a program. I'm considered a very 'smoker friendly' employer. As I have previously stated, I have several close friends and relatives who are smokers. Unfortunately, the raw facts completely refute your claim that smokers make the "best workers". To be completely honest, I'm disappointed that you would make such a statement. I wouldn't have expected something so far from left field from you. The sad facts are that smokers cost employers hundreds of millions of dollars in additional expenses. There's not enough room here to list the exhaustive list of studies that prove as much. Again, absolutely nothing against someone who chooses to smoke, but to say that smokers make the best workers is simply far from the truth.

 

[Sigarms]

I think common sense will tell you that smoking is bad for you and your lungs.

Got to see my uncle die in the hospital and he was a chain smoker. Not pretty in his last days (we can put animals down humanely but not humans).

Perhaps second hand smoke can be debated, but I do know I can't wait until the first day of next year. NO smoking in NC restaurants. The no smoking sections in some places here are ridiculous.

Living outside of Winston Salem, the smoking debate makes for interesting reading.

 

[Bird]

Dargo, you can say it's ridiculous if you wish. No skin off my nose, but as I said, the study in question was done by a non-smoker who expected to show the opposite, according to the published news story. And yes, there have been studies showing that smokers cost employers more. And that may be true. I've not done any scientific studies of that topic, even though I was Commander of the Planning and Research Division when I retired. Of course, I read the results of lots of studies and the one in question was mentioned in a short article in the newspaper. And yes, I know there are exceptions to every rule, but officers in the Dallas Police Department earned one day of sick leave each month until they had accumuilated 720 hours. After that they could call in sick one day a month and still keep the maximum accumulation. If they did not call in sick and take the time off, they just "lost" that time. And who had the maximum accumulation and still showed up for work everyday? Smokers such as myself. I don't even remember how many years I had the maximum and never used any sick leave. But I do know I had both police officers and civilian employees and the smokers were the most reliable. That's just a fact. Whether you like it or not and whether you believe it or not makes no difference to me.

 

[Dargo]

But I do know I had both police officers and civilian employees and the smokers were the most reliable. That's just a fact.

Fact?????

ASH - SMOKING IN THE WORKPLACE COSTS EMPLOYERS MONEY
"Productivity: One has only to visualize the smoking ritual to realize the time lost by smokers. Add to that inefficiency and errors caused by higher CO levels in smokers, eye irritation, and lower attentiveness. Research is documenting lower productivity in smoking employees and increases in productivity when smoking is limited or banned.

Insurance: Additional health-care cost per smoker in this country is slightly over $300 per year in 1983 dollars, and this estimate is conservative. Some insurers, recognizing the differential in mortality rates between smokers and nonsmokers, are offering up to 45 percent discounts on premiums for term-life coverage for nonsmokers with medical examinations. "

Researchers Say Smokers Cost Employers in Missed Work Days, Poor Performance
"Researchers Say Smokers Cost Employers in Missed Work Days, Poor Performance"

Smokers and Your Company's Bottom Line
"In general, employees who smoke are less productive than non-smokers because they have less energy, are sick more often, and take more breaks in order to contend with the demands of nicotine addiction."

Costs of Smoking to Employers - Stop Smoking Solutions - Workplace Smoking Cessation Programmes
"Direct Costs
Productivity costs due to extra sick leave due to smoking
Productivity costs due to time taken for smoking breaks"

Etc., etc., etc., etc. C'mon Bird. Why are you taking up a position that cannot be justified? I can't state enough that I believe in individual rights. However, you have to understand what everyone already knows is fact and what is propaganda put out by tobacco companies. Not to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but you'll find 100 studies that completely refute your position to every one (funded by a tobacco company) that agrees with you. Be reasonable. It's not what I believe, it's pure and simple what is fact.

 

[Bird]

Dargo, are you saying you think I should lie in order to agree with the "studies" you quoted and maybe your own experience? That ain't gonna happen. I mentioned one study from the early '80s, and my experience with my own employees and myself. All I did was state facts and I can't change them and won't lie about them. The fact that some other studies reached different conclusions or that some other employers say their experience has been different is immaterial. I can't say that those other studies are right or wrong because I don't know any of the details about the size of their studies, how they were conducted, when they were conducted, what kinds of jobs were being looked at, who did the studies, and what their prejudices (if any) were, etc. Maybe they're all right, and maybe your experience has been different. And I don't know enough details about the one study I mentioned to say whether his conclusions were right or wrong. A lot of us thought the brief article we read was funny, since it quoted the guy as being a non-smoker who expected to prove the opposite of what his study showed.

C'mon Bird. Why are you taking up a position that cannot be justified?

Why do you think I am, when I'm not. I'm not taking any "position"; only stating some facts. Actually, I'd like to see everyone quit smoking. Think about what that would do the economy.LOL

 

[Reg]

If you have never smoked, but grew up in a house where one or more other people smoked, you have been SIGNIFICANTLY exposed.
If you worked in an office for a few years in the US before the mid 90s, you have probably had significant exposure.

It IS a hazard that people foist on others, it is NOT "just a personal choice and personal risk".
Lung cancer isn't the only health risk from tobacco either.