Lung cancer is not fun

[Steve C]

Yep, a lot of doctors figure if you smoke, that's the cause of ALL your health problems, and if you don't smoke, then it's because you've overweight, and if you aren't overweight, then they have no idea what could be wrong.

Second hand smoke? Yeah, terrible stuff. My mother grew up with a father who chain smoked roll your own Prince Albert cigarettes, then married my dad who smoked all his life. I guess it was conditioning because she said she liked the smell of the smoke, tried a cigarette once in her life and liked it, but decided it wouldn't be worth the cost, so she never smoked. And she died in 2006 at the age of 85. No one else on either side of my family ever lived to be that old. And she did not have lung cancer.

Second hand smoke is terrible stuff. Everyone who smokes isn't going to die of lung cancer, only a small percentage of them are. Heart disease will probably get most of them first. This applies to those who smoke second hand also. By the time our generation gets old we have so much crap in our bodies that isn't by nature supposed to be there it is hard to point at one cause and say "ah ha" that is the stuff that made him sick!. We have inhaled smoke from trash fires containing every concievible plastic product ever made, perhaps our neighbors are burning treated wood scraps in their wood burners. In factories we have been exposed to all kinds of chemicals and airborne hrdrocarbons in solvents that we have inhaled and ingested in small quantities over the years. Much of the information linking exposure to toxic substances with disease wasn't discovered untill it was to late for many people. A good friend of mine has recently been diagnosed with a rare form of lukemiea that has been linked to Benzene.
It isn't a nice way to die.

Years ago he worked at a refinery and was exposed to Benzene almost every day for several years, before anyone knew it was bad for you.

So did he develop the lukemiea from the exposure at the plant? It is impossible to say, but "the Department of Health and Human Services has determined that benzene causes cancer in humans. Long-term exposure to Benzene in the air can cause leukemia, cancer of the blood-forming organs."

The chemical industry no longer permits its workers to be exposed to Benzene at the work place.

Knowing this would you expose yourself to Benzene every day of your life if you could easily avoid it?

I sure wouldn't. The risk is very small, everybody who is exposed isn't going to die from it, only a small percentage will. Am I in that percentage? I dunno! If there is no benifit to me being exposed (for instance It isn't involved in my earning a living and supporting a wife and kids, no one is paying me to do it) why would I choose to breathe Benzene?

The same Center for disease control also says this about Benzene.

A major source of benzene exposure is tobacco smoke.

I choose to limit my exposure to things that have been proven to be harmfull to people. I avoid stepping in front of moving vehicles and I avoid injesting or breathing substances that have been proven to have the capacity to cause slow agonizing death.

A friend and co-worker of mine, Fred Corenet of Pittsford Michigan died a couple years ago at a very young age with lung cancer. It took him a very long time to die. He left a wife and 3 kids. Did he smoke? Yes. He also worked in a manufacturing environment where he was exposed to many solvents over the years. He also lived his entire life in an area that has a high Radon gas concentration. Did he spend a lot of time as a kid playing in the basement in our long Michigan winters just soaking up Radon? I don't know. The only thing I know for sure is that it makes good sense to learn from our past experiences.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Lots of great posts here.

I tell friends they should stop. Once. I don't nag them. I figure that way I've done what a friend should, but no point in being a PITA if it won't get anywhere.

And smoking and being overweight don't guarantee something will happen to you, just like doing neither won't guarantee nothing will happen to you. But a kid playing on the highway is a lot more likely to be runover than a kid playing in a driveway.

There's a reason why doctors think smoking and being overweight is bad for you, and its not because its a medical conspiracy... My wife is a surgeon. She hates operating on smokers, because they just don't heal well, and have complications non-smokers don't have. Something I never knew before I met her - smoking messes up things having nothing to do with the lungs.

 

[dmccarty]

I have searched to see if I could find the links to the story or studies but not luck....

The Wall Street Journal had an article about second hand smoke that referenced two towns/cities that had implemented public smoking restrictions. What was interesting was that in at least one case the city then revoked the smoking restrictions.

When the smoking restrictions went into place the number of deaths in the city went down 30-50%. When the smoking restrictions where revoked deaths went back up about 30%.

I am skeptical of studies. But this was kinda interesting. The WSJ just had an article about all sorts of health studies and it was interesting to read the caveats which seem to remove the results of the given study. They article did not mention the if, ands or buts with the second hand smoke study. But it should have been with lot of people in the study group compared to the usual study of 30 people.

Two friends of mine are dead men walking with illnesses that they had no control over. Course we are all dead men walking I suppose. I just don't know when my check out time is scheduled. They know. I see people do very destructive things that will almost certainly kill them. These people have a CHOICE. My friends had no CHOICE. Its a bit frustrating.

I do think genetics plays a big part. Most of the people in my family live into their 80-90s. I have a relative, not blood related, whose family dies very young usually of heart issues. He has had several cancers and know has lung problems. He used to smoke but quit decades ago but his wife still smokes because she cannot/will not quit. While he has outlived his family averages he is a very ill man. The second hand smoke may not be totally to blame for his lung problems but it sure as heck did not help him.

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Second hand smoke is terrible stuff. Everyone who smokes isn't going to die of lung cancer, only a small percentage of them are. Heart disease will probably get most of them first. This applies to those who smoke second hand also. By the time our generation gets old we have so much crap in our bodies that isn't by nature supposed to be there it is hard to point at one cause and say "ah ha" that is the stuff that made him sick!. We have inhaled smoke from trash fires containing every concievible plastic product ever made, perhaps our neighbors are burning treated wood scraps in their wood burners. In factories we have been exposed to all kinds of chemicals and airborne hrdrocarbons in solvents that we have inhaled and ingested in small quantities over the years. Much of the information linking exposure to toxic substances with disease wasn't discovered untill it was to late for many people. A good friend of mine has recently been diagnosed with a rare form of lukemiea that has been linked to Benzene.
It isn't a nice way to die.

Years ago he worked at a refinery and was exposed to Benzene almost every day for several years, before anyone knew it was bad for you.

So did he develop the lukemiea from the exposure at the plant? It is impossible to say, but "the Department of Health and Human Services has determined that benzene causes cancer in humans. Long-term exposure to Benzene in the air can cause leukemia, cancer of the blood-forming organs."

The chemical industry no longer permits its workers to be exposed to Benzene at the work place.

Knowing this would you expose yourself to Benzene every day of your life if you could easily avoid it?

I sure wouldn't. The risk is very small, everybody who is exposed isn't going to die from it, only a small percentage will. Am I in that percentage? I dunno! If there is no benifit to me being exposed (for instance It isn't involved in my earning a living and supporting a wife and kids, no one is paying me to do it) why would I choose to breathe Benzene?

The same Center for disease control also says this about Benzene.

A major source of benzene exposure is tobacco smoke.

I choose to limit my exposure to things that have been proven to be harmfull to people. I avoid stepping in front of moving vehicles and I avoid injesting or breathing substances that have been proven to have the capacity to cause slow agonizing death.

A friend and co-worker of mine, Fred Corenet of Pittsford Michigan died a couple years ago at a very young age with lung cancer. It took him a very long time to die. He left a wife and 3 kids. Did he smoke? Yes. He also worked in a manufacturing environment where he was exposed to many solvents over the years. He also lived his entire life in an area that has a high Radon gas concentration. Did he spend a lot of time as a kid playing in the basement in our long Michigan winters just soaking up Radon? I don't know. The only thing I know for sure is that it makes good sense to learn from our past experiences.

Very well put Steve.
Dave.

 

[Steve C]

Very well put Steve.
Dave.

Thanks Dave.
My son smoked about 2 packs a day. At one time he worked in the Asbestos abatement industry.

The risk to those guys is so high when you combine asbestos with smoking that it was a condition of employment that smokers could not be emoplyed to do that kind of work.

Of course he did what any very young man who wants a good paying job would do, he lied, and told them he didn't smoke.

And of course the local (but nationally famous for other ventures) businessman who ran the company wanted to retain as many good workers as he could without recruiting new ones so he didn't bother to verify if any of them were telling the truth, after all he was making good money, no sense rocking the boat.

As it turned out, almost all his crews were smokers. That worked out great because they didn't have to worry about being ratted out by their co-workers.

So even though laws and guidlines are in place to protect people,they don't always work, especially if someone else is making piles of money by looking the other way.

 

[Bird]

By the time our generation gets old we have so much crap in our bodies that isn't by nature supposed to be there it is hard to point at one cause and say "ah ha" that is the stuff that made him sick!.

Exactly right. But go back a few generations when they didn't have all that stuff in their bodies. Did they live longer or healthier lives? I don't think so. Well, you can say the medical profession has improved to the point they've extended our lives. Yep, that's probably at least part of the reason. But there's no one reason, or one answer, to any of this. It's a multitude of cause and effect. I don't say smoking is good for you, although doctors used to say that, and I can remember when most doctors smoked. I quit smoking 3 years ago; my wife quit a year later, and I'm glad our daughters, their husbands, and our grandkids don't smoke. So I guess you could say we don't have a dog in this fight; I just hate to see the exaggerations and implications that smoking has done a great deal more harm than it actually has done.

As it turned out, almost all his crews were smokers.

You know there was a study published over 20 years ago that concluded the smokers were also the best workers. Naturally, it didn't get much publicity. Even the guy who did the study was hoping it would show the opposite since he was anti-tobacco. His conclusion was that smokers are "addictive personalities" so they must also get addicted to their work.

My own experience with having hundreds of employees over the years agreed with that study. The smokers were the best workers. But I never thought of smoking as being the reason; just figured it was coincidence.

 

[Chuck52]

My casual observation is that professional painters are very often smokers....wonder what the stats are for them as to cancer and such. I guess the newer paints with low volatiles....can't remember the acronym... may help some.

The local city where I work bans smoking about everywhere they can. I can't say I agree with that, since I think a business owner should be able to set his own policy about smoking, or carrying concealed weapons, or just about any other legal activity on his own property, but I sure like eating at restaurants without having to wait for a non-smoking table. I can now tell if the people in the car in front of me driving down the interstate are smoking. Reminds me of the time, some years ago, when I got in the family car after one of my sons had borrowed it the night before. I think I said, "Do you really think I don't know what pot smells like? I came of age in the sixties, idiot!"

Chuck

 

[Steve C]

I just hate to see the exaggerations and implications that smoking has done a great deal more harm than it actually has done.


I don't think it is possible to exaggerate the amount of harm that smoking has done. I don't know how you could measure it so how could one possibly exaggerate it. The effects are so insidious and far reaching any speculation or implication could just as well be an gross understatement.

Studies have been done that come to the conclusion that each cigarette shortens your life by "X" number of minutes. Your results may vary. Maybe the guys who actually die an early death skew the statistics enough that the average smoker will not have the time he can spend with his grand children significantly shortened because it doesn't take many 30 year life length losses to bring that average way up.

I am glad that you have quit and your wife also. My wife quit about 30 years ago. I hope that you suffer no effects from it.

Smokers may be the best workers, I have no idea. But the way I see it the crew my son worked with was made up of a bunch of liars. They may or may not have other personality shortcomings.

 

[D7E]

One guy in particular knows he's definitely killing himself with his 4 pack a day smoking but keeps saying "we all have to die from something". .

...4 packs a day.....Are there really people who smoke that much..i think i'd be sick.I quit smoking a pack a day 10 years ago at 23 when we had a baby but stupidly returned to smoking maybe 2 packs a week with a few beers in the evenings and has become habit...I think maybe cold turkey on both vices is next..!

 

[Bird]

...4 packs a day.....Are there really people who smoke that much..i think i'd be sick.I quit smoking a pack a day 10 years ago at 23 when we had a baby but stupidly returned to smoking maybe 2 packs a week with a few beers in the evenings and has become habit...I think maybe cold turkey on both vices is next..!

I read somewhere that Yul Brynner smoked 5 packs a day. As long as I could remember, my Dad smoked a carton (10 packs) a week. And when I quit I had gotten to smoking between 2 and 3 packs a day. That just got to be too expensive.