LS Room for improvement.

[ozley]

Really didn't answer any of my questions.
1, Whats the tie with former New Holland compacts ?
2. Why are they marketed through New Holland dealers ?
3. No design, engineering information.
4. Says something about China. ( did they copy NH and market a prototype ? )
5. For a few bucks less would you take a chance on something with no history of reliability ?
Spoke with one dealer who ordered one... looked it over .. and decides not to sell this line.
I hope they do well...

You'll need to kept reading. Call LS & NH CO. Offices and ask them.
Your ?'s make no sense to me. Former, China, I do not know the dealer you spoke with. I don't think I took a chance that I bought one.

 

[bp fick]

Really didn't answer any of my questions.
1, Whats the tie with former New Holland compacts ?
2. Why are they marketed through New Holland dealers ?
3. No design, engineering information.
4. Says something about China. ( did they copy NH and market a prototype ? )
5. For a few bucks less would you take a chance on something with no history of reliability ?
Spoke with one dealer who ordered one... looked it over .. and decides not to sell this line.
I hope they do well...

To slow it down, just a bit..... LS has been making tractors for some time. They were the manufacturer behind some McCormicks, Montana Tractors, some FarmTracs as well. LS decided to open their own shop in the US instead of just being the OEM for other folks labels. It is that simple. No, they are not Kioti, that is Daedong, a different Korean company altogether.

Recently, New Holland decided to stop buying tractors from Iseki and re-branding them as NH. No doubt, Iseki, being Japanese, had gotten too expensive for NH to be competitive. So, NH now sells LS rebranded models in some lines, not all.

Meanwhile, if memory serves, McCormick started re-branding Daedong (Kioti) tractors in some lines.

LS isn't as well known as some OEMs, but I sure wouldn't say they have NO history of reliability. Most of the Montana owners were pretty satisfied with the machine, just not the Montana company that sold/serviced them.

As for China, well... almost everyone from Deere to Apple, from GM to Honda, from Kubota to LS has some presence in China. It would not be fair to identify an LS tractor as anything other than Korean, however.

Hope that helps.

 

[houstonscott]

To slow it down, just a bit..... LS has been making tractors for some time. They were the manufacturer behind some McCormicks, Montana Tractors, some FarmTracs as well. LS decided to open their own shop in the US instead of just being the OEM for other folks labels. It is that simple. No, they are not Kioti, that is Daedong, a different Korean company altogether.

Recently, New Holland decided to stop buying tractors from Iseki and re-branding them as NH. No doubt, Iseki, being Japanese, had gotten too expensive for NH to be competitive. So, NH now sells LS rebranded models in some lines, not all.

Meanwhile, if memory serves, McCormick started re-branding Daedong (Kioti) tractors in some lines.

LS isn't as well known as some OEMs, but I sure wouldn't say they have NO history of reliability. Most of the Montana owners were pretty satisfied with the machine, just not the Montana company that sold/serviced them.

As for China, well... almost everyone from Deere to Apple, from GM to Honda, from Kubota to LS has some presence in China. It would not be fair to identify an LS tractor as anything other than Korean, however.

Hope that helps.

+1

Let me also add that LS has moved the production of those models that were McCormicks, Montana Tractors and FarmTracs from the original factory to the new factory, the R models, and their even better. They have also designed new tractors from a clean sheet of paper in the U5020 and U5030 that the new factory was designed to build. The U5030 won Ag design awards all over the world and is the only new tractor design from a clean sheet I know of in this size world wide in maybe decades. The fit finish and quality gained from a new modern factory are evident in the product, go look at one! It is like comparing your truck of the 1990's with a modern 2012 truck, there is no comparison, it's clearly put together better. LS is making a better mouse trap right now, and people see it, they are growing and growing fast. Many of the people in the market now are not afraid of S. Korean products they mean quality to many younger people who use Samsung and LG, and drive Korean cars and think they are superior to Japanese products. The new young guy in the small tractor market is not intrenched in the Kubota box because they were not in the market in the 1970's and don't have a history like many on TBN for Kubota. I would argue LS is the new Kubota. Kubota is playing catchup now and selling on reputation, while that will work for a while, (look at the rabid Kubota types on TBN) it will not work forever, clearly they need to get better. Kubota needs a new modern factory and some new designs, and the dealers need to loose the attitude.

HS

 

[I have no memory]

To answer the hydraulic shuttle versus mechanical shuttle. Hydaulic shuttle simply allows you to reverse direction w/o pushing in the clutch. It's still a mechanical transmission just with a hydraulic clutch. It should be more durable than a mechanical shuttle especially if the clutch on the mechanical shuttle is dry.

As far as I know the company NH is getting away from isn't Iseki but Shibaura. From all accounts they were very very good tractors but pricey and were loosing market share. AGCO gets their tractors from Iseki and they are pretty good. Right now, as far as I know, LS is making only a few models for NH I think their the Boomer 40-50 something like that.

I still LS has a good tractor especially if they stick with the Mitsubishi made engines but around here they are about the same price as Kubota and don't offer as many transmission options.

 

[bp fick]

To answer the hydraulic shuttle versus mechanical shuttle. Hydaulic shuttle simply allows you to reverse direction w/o pushing in the clutch. It's still a mechanical transmission just with a hydraulic clutch. It should be more durable than a mechanical shuttle especially if the clutch on the mechanical shuttle is dry.

As far as I know the company NH is getting away from isn't Iseki but Shibaura. From all accounts they were very very good tractors but pricey and were loosing market share. AGCO gets their tractors from Iseki and they are pretty good. Right now, as far as I know, LS is making only a few models for NH I think their the Boomer 40-50 something like that.

I still LS has a good tractor especially if they stick with the Mitsubishi made engines but around here they are about the same price as Kubota and don't offer as many transmission options.

You are right. Had a brain f@rt on that one. Yes, Shibura.

 

[bp fick]

+1

Let me also add that LS has moved the production of those models that were McCormicks, Montana Tractors and FarmTracs from the original factory to the new factory, the R models, and their even better. They have also designed new tractors from a clean sheet of paper in the U5020 and U5030 that the new factory was designed to build. The U5030 won Ag design awards all over the world and is the only new tractor design from a clean sheet I know of in this size world wide in maybe decades. The fit finish and quality gained from a new modern factory are evident in the product, go look at one! It is like comparing your truck of the 1990's with a modern 2012 truck, there is no comparison, it's clearly put together better. LS is making a better mouse trap right now, and people see it, they are growing and growing fast. Many of the people in the market now are not afraid of S. Korean products they mean quality to many younger people who use Samsung and LG, and drive Korean cars and think they are superior to Japanese products. The new young guy in the small tractor market is not intrenched in the Kubota box because they were not in the market in the 1970's and don't have a history like many on TBN for Kubota. I would argue LS is the new Kubota. Kubota is playing catchup now and selling on reputation, while that will work for a while, (look at the rabid Kubota types on TBN) it will not work forever, clearly they need to get better. Kubota needs a new modern factory and some new designs, and the dealers need to loose the attitude.

HS

LS can stand on its own two feet. Whether it will challenge Kubota is far, far too big a leap. One doesn't need to put down a Kubota to speak hopefully and positively about LS. LS should focus on doing the best job it can, period. Same with the LS dealers. They've got a loooooong way to go to catch Kubota, whose lead is just too big to be overcome quickly. LS should just focus, focus and work hard, They'll succeed that way.

Where I want to see LS succeed and even step forward is in the engines. Yanmar and Kubota dominate the world market on small diesel engine in pumps, sail boats, tractors, etc, etc etc. I would like to see LS take the designs of Mitsu, but improve on them.

Once upon a time, Kia (the auto people) had to basically rework and re-cast older Mazda engine designs (I think). That day is now past for them. Hyundai/Kia merger and the huge leaps in market share world wide has apparently allowed them to produce their own engines, to their own designs and they are making great headway.

I look forward to the day when LS doesn't just install a Mitsubishi. I know lots of guys like the Mitsu, I'm just not one of them.

 

[BigBoyinMS]

Really didn't answer any of my questions.
1, Whats the tie with former New Holland compacts ?
2. Why are they marketed through New Holland dealers ?
3. No design, engineering information.
4. Says something about China. ( did they copy NH and market a prototype ? )
5. For a few bucks less would you take a chance on something with no history of reliability ?
Spoke with one dealer who ordered one... looked it over .. and decides not to sell this line.
I hope they do well...

1. LS supplies tractors that are sold under the New Holland name.
2. LS tractors are their own company and have their own dealers. Those dealers may also sell other brands. Possibly even New Holland.
3. ?
4. ? They are Korean built tractors. Nothing to do with China.
5. According to how much history you want. They have been built and sold since 1975.

After typing all this I found Wikipedia has a good page on them that has a lot of history. LS Tractors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My 2006 Montana is actually an LS model LT450D that used to be sold in Europe. And from the work history of my Montana plus what I've done with it... i'll say it's as much tractor as any other color out there.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

LS can stand on its own two feet. Whether it will challenge Kubota is far, far too big a leap. One doesn't need to put down a Kubota to speak hopefully and positively about LS. LS should focus on doing the best job it can, period. Same with the LS dealers. They've got a loooooong way to go to catch Kubota, whose lead is just too big to be overcome quickly. LS should just focus, focus and work hard, They'll succeed that way.

Agreed, I love my LS and think it's a great value, but I was aware of the downsides (small dealer network, limited parts availability, questionable resale value, etc....) before I decided to buy. I believe this thread actually began with some complaints about areas where LS needs to improve, but it's been so long now that I can't remember!:laughing:

Focus LS, focus....

 

[uphere]

Look it folks - every tractor has it's good points and bad ... I bought a Montana (2740) back in 2007 which was an LS tractor. I didn't buy it because it was LS - I bought it because based on what I had seen, it could do what I needed it to do and at a slightly lower price (and the reception from the dealers I went to was very good).

Are there better tractors - sure there are ... just like my wife would say there are better husbands! But you put your requirements in perspective and get the best you can afford (maybe she should have spent more!).

Last year I bought a 4041EZ from the same dealer - and neither tractor has given me any trouble ... that I didn't ask for myself

 

[houstonscott]

The main point was not to bash Kubota, I think they are a fantastic company. The point is that LS is making a quality product and is able to match up with the Kubota the goliath should be surprising for most and under standing the reason why is important. It has taken a huge investment to do what they have done. The S4QS engine is being manufactured by LS now a Mitsubishi design, hard to tell but I think they bought rights to make that engine in S. Korea. Your right though LS needs to design their own engines. I think for now making the engine a non issue was a great move. The S4S in the U5030 is world class engine in all types of equipment all over the world, and after some investigation took that off my list of worries in buying an LS. I standby my statement though that Kubota needs to update their tractors and factories. They are doing a new assembly plant in USA but some guys scurrying around a big building for the parts for the days build outs is not encouraging.

HS

 

[bp fick]

One last thought, then I'll just leave it alone.

LS, like the other Korean manufacturers, will have to face the need, eventually, of having a presence in the US, for manufacturing, even if it is somewhere between manufacturing and extensive final assembly.

The Japanese are really hurting over their yen valuation, I guess, among other issues in exporting. Toyota and Honda have slowly but surely brought the majority of their manufacturing here to the US and Hyundai/Kia is following suit.
This likely also explains Kubota increasing their US facilities as well.

On the dealership front, LS can only make it happen so fast, but there is likely only one LS dealer for every 10 Kubota and Deere dealerships. The facilities, garages, showroom, parts displays, and inventory? Not much comparison. That reality will have to change as well. It is going to prove extremely hard to increase market share to any appreciable level without an enormous improvement in dealer network, both in quality and quantity.

I'd have to drive past 4 Deere dealers and 3 Kubota dealerships to get to the one and only LS dealer I even know of. There is no comparison in the presentation or "curb appeal" between them either. That's a place of major improvement required.

Finally, improve the web presence and website. Sorry, but it just isn't there yet. All of which to say is that this all takes time. The other "Big Boys" have a big lead on them. Nobody expects over-night miracles, just consistent, steady progress. I'm reasonably confident that 5 years out? We'll see what they do. I hope so. Competition is good. A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[ozley]

Hyundai has come far but they been here 22 years. They came here in 1988.

 

[uphere]

Buddy of mine had a 1986 "Pony" - piece of crap! My boss has a 2011 Sonata - very nice indeed. But that is called progression - learn from your mistakes or go under. I drove a Kubota for a lawn crew back in 1976 - compared to the Masseys we had at the time they were a pile of crap. Look at Kubota now ... almost as good as LS - I am kidding ok

 

[northpolefolks]

There are LS tractors showing up here in Alaska more and more it seems. Funny things is you don't see used ones lined up at the dealer for repair work. Sure there are warranty issues now and then but there is with every tractor.

The tractors in AK are used hard and in all kinds of weather. There are dominant brands up here for sure. Deere, Kubota, NH and a few stragglers, but none seem to be on the increase like LS.

Is LS the best tractor out there? No and your dad can't beat up my dad either. Ha ha. The age old debate of which is best will never end. That's part of the male ego, mine included.

What I can say (from what I have read/seen/heard) is LS makes a good tractor. It's not made in Iraq, the engine was not made in a 3rd world country, it's not coated in lead based paint. The ones that are out there are being put to the test like other capable tractors like Deere, Kubota, Mahindra, NH ect.

If you like a Chevy, drive a Chevy, if you like a Ford drive a Ford. Let me know if you see alot of LS's for sale out there with low hours cause I can't seem to find em.

Above all were all pretty fortunate to live in a country where we can have this debate and show what a variety of freedoms we have to work our own land. Lets pray it stays that way.

 

[toxicjeeper]

Yeah LS:thumbsup:..I am pretty sure there is 3 or 4 LS owners in my imediate area now and the numbers are growing. The more that my dealer can sell the better it is for us all!

 

[lontex]

Before I bought my LS 7010 I shopped around, looked at Kubota, Mahindra.NH, and for what I got as Standard Equipment on the LS all the other Tractors was quite a few Thousand more. i.e, Kubota for 12 speed trans. was $3800 more, (LS 20 speed) Hyd. hook up came with one then $900 for each additional, (LS comes with 3) outside wiper $1600. ( Standard on LS) $1500 more for a 2 speed PTO.( LS comes with 3 speed) $600 for self levelling bucket $200 for cd player (Radio) ( both standard on LS) all these were standard on the LS Kubota did not have Draft control. (LS does), these prices are based on the 70 HP Kubota. as mine is (7010 73 hp). the cab on the LS is very sturdy and tight fit and finish is very good, MHO. the one thing I would have liked would be an Air ride seat, the LS seat cranked all the way up, to me is a little low but a large thro cushon cured that. in all I am real pleased with my LS. ($35000.00) I forgot LS comes with 5 year power train warranty, Kubota 2 years. I am not bashing Kubota as they are a very good lTractor just looking at what you get for your money. Kubota without the extras $37800.00. that was the price quoted to me anyway.