LS or Kubota

[jyoutz]

This is the part of buying a tractor nobody seems to understand and admittedly it took me too long to figure it out myself. There is no such thing as zero percent financing. When you figure out what the cash price is versus the finance price that's when you understand how much interest the manufacturer is really charging you to finance through them versus an outside lender. You are exactly right, at the end of the day it is exactly the same in most cases. You didn't really save any money buying the value brand other then getting more standard features. Not saying that isn't worth anything because it is but they come out about the same.

There is no big difference in cash prices. I was offered $500 less for cash purchase. It’s no difference to dealers. They get paid either by cash or from Kubota credit. 6 years no interest is far better than a $500 discount.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

There is no big difference in cash prices. I was offered $500 less for cash purchase. It’s no difference to dealers. They get paid either by cash or from Kubota credit. 6 years no interest is far better than a $500 discount.

Yes I'm aware of the $500 cash discount shenanigans that the dealers try to deceive customers with But what I was referring to was the ACH discount.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I don’t like to finance, I buy in cash but a lot of people are not in a position to do that. With that said, 0% is the same as buying in cash! If you can finance for 0%(which is hard to find right now) then why wait to same the money. Makes no sense! I don’t agree with saving up to purchase in this case.

There is no such thing as zero percent.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

In spite of the fact that Ginop still has the big New Holland sign out front, they do not sell New Holland any more. I asked, why the sign then? They said it belongs to New Holland, and they have so far refused to remove it, and Ginop doesn't want to shoulder the cost of removal. I am disappointed, as I have a New Holland TC30, and now the distance to the nearest new Holland dealer has tripled.

Did they say why they dropped them?

 

[Mud2Money]

When I priced tractors out after the new year. The kioti current offers were the 0 percent and then cash back up to 6500 if you went regular finance/cash option. If you are like myself and pay loans off in 2 years or less you can save a few grand going with cash option.

 

[Jstpssng]

Well willy willy, the extra gears are very useful when you are trying to get a certain ground speed, at engine "pto" speed.

SR

I’d never heard of the HST plus but it sure sounds handy for plowing, when you are going forward under load but backing up empty.

 

[rScotty]

I’d never heard of the HST plus but it sure sounds handy for plowing, when you are going forward under load but backing up empty.

It's also handy when pulling a load uphill or pushing into a pile. It's darn near instantaneous, fingertip, and the auto-throttle simultaneously does its trick of compensating without having to move your foot on the treadle. So what it feels like is that someone just leaned down and gave your tractor a bunch more HP. What actually happened is it shifted down half a gear - but so smoothly you hardly noticed.
rScotty

 

[jrsavoie]

My LS MT225S was 4300 cheaper than Kubota B2601. I prefer dual pedals over the treddle peddle also.

There isn't much I like about my wife's Kubota LX2610.
I'll never buy another Kubota.

Of course in my present physical condition, I don't think I will be buying anything.

 

[jrsavoie]

You don't see them for sale because we like them so much, we hang onto them.

If you are financing the LS at 5% for 84 months, at the end, you will have paid $43k. Basically the exact same price as the Kubota at 0%.

From a financial standpoint, (no, I'm not a financial planner), and with the financial mess that is the global economy right now (can you say recession right around the corner?) I would recommend saving your monthly payments until you can pay cash for the tractor. LS gave me a $2k discount for paying cash, further increasing the difference in price with the Kubota. Kubota offered no cash discount.

If the bottom of the economy does fall out in the next 6-18 months, like it's looking like it very well may, you may find a lot of dealers happy to make a sweeter deal. As my dad always says, buy low, sell high. Right now, prices are at all time highs.

But, if you feel you have to have it now, if it's Kubota at 0% versus LS at 4-5%, the final dollar amount is going to be within a grand or so.

If I were in that situation, I probably would have gone with Kubota because of the good, established dealer in my area.

Not long ago we were making 5% on our money. So we went 0%>. It's kind of nice to pay something off over time and still have your original and possibly more.

 

[rScotty]

There is no such thing as zero percent.

Well, of course there is such a thing as zero percent. It's not common in the USA, but Japan has been right at zero percent on their domestic bank loans for almost 20 years now. Their banks also pay close to zero percent interest. So they have a few decades of experience with low interest rates that we don't.

The Japanese inflation runs less than 2% per year and often less than 1%. This year is projected to be an all time high at about 2%, but bonds for the following years - 2023 & 2024 are already being traded at under 1%. The bond market is an interesting hobby.

In another difference worth pondering, in the USA we have roughly doubled the amount that our population is carrying as a credit or debt load in the last decade - but Japan's per capita credit is even higher than ours.

Just pointing out that different national economies work in different fashions. And Kubota is a Japanese company. So what we have learned through the experience in our own econony doesn't necessarily apply. Not completely. We have to pick and choose the pieces that do and don't work the same.
rScotty

 

[Williy]

SR I can put the throttle at 2200 rpm but
my tractor speed is slow unless I step on the
throttle I run my pto and have the tractor speed
at 2 or 3 mph using the cruise. Perhaps I don't
understand what you are saying???

willy

 

[rScotty]

SR I can put the throttle at 2200 rpm but
my tractor speed is slow unless I step on the
throttle I run my pto and have the tractor speed
at 2 or 3 mph using the cruise. Perhaps I don't
understand what you are saying???

willy

For the RPM and the mph to stay constant, something has to change when the load changes. That "something" that changes when the load gets heavier is that more fuel is injected which increases the engine torque.

If you listen carefully, you may be able to hear that change in the exhaust note as the governor increases the torque so it can keep the RPM and mph constant.
rScotty

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Oh, and that LS dealer is 550 miles away.... never had to take either tractor back to them for any work, over 560 hours combined, and they are / were worked HARD!
Biased.... Yes. Over the dealers and the outrageous prices.

Ok you are the first member on here that I am aware of that has actually purchased a Korean tractor brand outside of a reasonable driving distance and that gives your opinion more credibility. It's easy to say you will purchase a Korean brand when they're right next door or a few miles down the road but would you actually purchase one when the closest dealer is hundreds of miles away?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Slander (verb): To make false and damaging statements.

You said:



You also intimated that the LS (because that is the brand the OP is discussing), like other brands, had cable routing outside the loader.

You later admitted you were looking at the MT573, not the MT3 series the OP is considering. I've attached pictures of the remote and 3 pt control locations for the MT573. Note, they are right beside the loader control, right where your arm rests. Not in a location where you have to "reach down and [can't] see what you are grabbing". The second picture shows the hose routing, inside the loader arms.

So, both of your statements about LS were factually incorrect. Combine that with your statements calling into question the quality and refinement of LS and other non Kubota tractors, and there is a clear intent to diminish/damage the reputation of LS and others. Taken as a whole, that's called slander.View attachment 747627View attachment 747628

RSR, after this post I have made a mental note to myself to never get into a squabble with you about LS

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

You are correct that the LS lift height is comparatively low. I know that is a deal-breaker for some, as it can limit tasks like dumping into a trailer bed, etc.

However, at the same lift height, the lift capacities are not ANYWHERE close. Back when I was shopping, I got the lift curves for the Kubota L805 loader, which is the "upgraded" option for the L3560 (what the OP is considering). You can then compare the lift capacity at the pins at the max lift height (where lift capacity is computed) for competing tractor brands. The plot is attached. The curve is the lift curve for the Kubota. The symbols are the specified data points for competing brands. That is, the symbols correspond to the maximum lift capacity at the specified maximum height.

You will note: The LS XR series (now the MT3 series) lifts 55% (!!!!) more than the Kubota does at the same height. So no, the lift capacity between the two is not "about equal".

Yes, you do have to properly ballast the rear, but that is not hard to do. I have fluid-filled rears, and a box blade on the back. With that ballast alone, I have hit the limit of my loader (couldn't lift a rock) without the rears coming off the ground.

RSR, this was extremely good posting here. I feel it needs to be pointed out to everyone that if you're going to argue this is how it's done. Bring data to the conversation to back up what you're saying. Don't use anecdotal evidence if you can help it please.

You have actually educated me about loaders with this post. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

From the company that also gives us a nifty double thick & insulated canopy...

I'm not familiar with this, please elaborate.

 

[rScotty]

RSR, this was extremely good posting here. I feel it needs to be pointed out to everyone that if you're going to argue this is how it's done. Bring data to the conversation to back up what you're saying. Don't use anecdotal evidence if you can help it please.

You have actually educated me about loaders with this post. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

I liked RSR's argument too. But still, what we don't know is what criteria the various companies are using to decide when the capacity of the loader is reached.

One might have been using cylinder hydraulic pressure, another using shear strength of the pivots, another using bending strength of the loader arms. Changing limits using mechanical specs is easy.

At one time tractors rated their FEL capacity the same way that commercial equipment is rated today - where loader capacity is based on the normal operating weight and stability of the entire platform. That's the best way.
rScotty

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I liked RSR's argument too. But still, what we don't know is what criteria the various companies are using to decide when the capacity of the loader is reached.

One might have been using cylinder hydraulic pressure, another using shear strength of the pivots, another using bending strength of the loader arms. Changing limits using mechanical specs is easy.

At one time tractors rated their FEL capacity the same way that commercial equipment is rated today - where loader capacity is based on the normal operating weight and stability of the entire platform. That's the best way.
rScotty

I always thought it was based on cylinder hydraulic pressure. However, you raise some good questions I bet M Harry would know this. Harry if you're reading this thread please weigh in on this for us.

 

[rScotty]

I'm not familiar with this, please elaborate.

rScotty said:
From the company that also gives us a nifty double thick & insulated canopy...

I was just pointing out how good they can be when they try....and yet most tractors still don't have decent toolbox.

For an example of a nice canopy see Kubota's TLB line rather than their Ag tractors. Their TLBs have a 4 post canopy with steel frame and a double thick blow-molded canopy with insulation. So they can do it right when they want to.

TLBs and Ag tractors are very similar except the TLB is heavier built for digging and carrying. One big difference is where an Ag tractor has a 3pt as standard equipment with a backhoe optional, the TLB has a backhoe as standard and the 3pt hitch is optional.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Their TLBs have a 4 post canopy with steel frame and a double thick blow-molded canopy with insulation. So they can do it right when they want to.

Oh yeah you had talked about this before. "double thick blow-molded canopy with insulation" Dang, how the heck do you know this Scotty?