Lost my chickens

[dmccarty]

TBN does it again....

There was a story in the paper today about a 17 year old playing golf last Saturday evening. He had moved from the golf cart to hit his ball when he notice a fox move behind the cart. He thought that was kinda cool to see the fox in the daytime and went back to playing golf. Well, the fox ran out from the cart and bit the kid.

Animal control and the police could not find the fox at that time. The animal control officer told people to watch for the fox to turn up dead in the next couple of days. If it did it most likely had rabies. They found a dead fox yesterday on the course so the 17 year old is getting the shots......

The animal control officer came out, cut off the fox's head, and shipped it out to see if it had rabies.

A few years ago on a local lake two boys were swimming in a beach area and were bitten by a rabid beaver....

And of course there is President Carter's run in with the swimming rabbit. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

BTW, Carter has a very interesting book out about growing up on a farm in the 1930ish time frame. He mentions rabid animals as a big concern of the times.

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[cowboydoc]

Patrick,
Read my post above yours. 22-250 is my gun of choice for all small game hunting. Big game I use a Remington 7mm.

 

[DrDan]

Actually they are not looking for the virus but some cellular inclusion bodies called Negri Bodies which are found in the hippocampus of the brain (reason not to shoot rabies suspects in the head). As long as the carcass is not toooo decomposed they may be able to diagnose rabies.

I'd let the health officials remove the head. No sense of risking yourself.

LOL There ya go with the high markup in medicine. Human diploid rabies vaccine costs $150 a dose and I believe post-exposure you need about 4 to 5 shots. Go figure the profit!

Dr Dan

 

[Boondox]

Thanks. I placed the round well away from the head, and called the state after the kill. They came right out and picked up the carcass, washed the area with peroxide and some other stuff, left us with plenty of info to keep us safe. Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[DrDan]

Great!!! Can rest easier now.

Dr Dan

 

[RPM]

Dr Dan,

As I remember it the saliva is infectious too? What's the risk of handling animals/birds that have been killed or attacked by a rabid animal? Is the virus long lasting in the wet/dry saliva?

 

[RichZ]

Pete, I'm glad to hear that. Let us know the lab results when you get them. I'm quite sure they'll find rabies. Everything about that fox's actions go contrary to the nature of a fox. Something was seriously wrong with him, and it most likely was rabies.

Rich

 

[DrDan]

Wow that is a good question. I don't know what the risk is when handling animals that have been killed by a rabid animal. I would suspect any contact with saliva to be a danger of infection through skin cracks whether that saliva is on another animal or the rabid animal itself. As long as the virus stays moist it may live for several days. Drying tends to destroy it, but I can't give you a frim answer as to how quickly. There have been cases of rabies in spelunkers (sp??) in caves full of rabid bats who breath the aerosolized bat crap.

If you believe there is any "possible" chance of exposure it is best to get the shots. By the way, the shots are not bad anymore. Years ago the vaccine was prepared in horse serum and large quantities had to be injected into the abdominal cavity since a large volume was required. The tremendous sickness that it caused was because of your allergic reaction to the horse serum. Today the vaccine is prepared in human serum and you have no reaction and the quantity administered is tiny (1/5 of a teaspoon or 1 ml). It entails giving five shots spaced over a month - administered in the arm. I've had them and had no reaction at all.

Once again if you think there is the possibilty of exposure - get the shots. We had a man get rabies a few years ago from using the brain of a rabid animal to tan another hide. Best always to wear rubber gloves when handling wild mammals. Soap and water is also very destructive of rabdovirus. It is always smart to wash any bite wound thoroughly with soap and water.

I'll see what alse I can find out about the longevity of the virus o/s the rabid animal.

Dr Dan

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Dr Dan,

What do you recommend for disposal of the dead animal? Burial, burning? Also, is it a good idea to burn/bury the clothing you were wearing when you handled the critter? Maybe spray the area where the criter was killed with bleach?
Also, why does my dog only need one shot and I need five?

Just really curious. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

SHF

 

[Von]

Dan,
When I got the shots I would get a splitting headache the next day. Also the first day of shots I got 3, two of them were larger thick stuff that burned like hell. Got them right above the butt, could hardly walk a few hours later! The kids got them in the thighs and were fine. The rest of them were the five of the stuff you are talking about and go in the arm. I hope to never have to go thru that again. Anytime a see an animal that doesn't look right in the daytime near the house, it gets an acute case of lead poison! Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[JayinNH]

Boondox,
Sorry to hear about your chickens. We had a hawk take one of our little bantams. Fortunately no foxes or coyotes yet. The chicken coop is close to the house so probably the 12 gauge is all I will need. Do you leave the chicken coop door open normaly at night? We try to shut them in at night but occasionaly forget. I think the prediators go for the quail coop more so then the chickens. I have found holes dug outside the fence. Something has scared them off before they can dig through so I've been lucky.Good luck with your bantams
Jay

 

[Boondox]

The coop is around the back of the garage. We shut them in at night, but this attack occurred in broad daylight while the hens were free ranging in the meadow. Major bummer!

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[DocHeb]

One of the shots you got was the vaccine. This takes five doses to get good immunity (and one month's time), so we also give RIG (rabies immune globulin) - the other two shots you got. It is used to try and give "instant immunity" to the rabies virus. This product is purified from human blood taken from donors that have been "hyperimmunized" - they have been immunized so many times their blood has a lot of antibodies that kill the rabies virus. RIG is only given to persons exposed to possibly rabid animals. It is not given for routine vaccinations. The vaccine post-exposure immunizations run about $1500. The vaccine costs about $150 a pop (5@$150) and the RIG costs about $750. These are very expensive since the number of doses used annually is small, and the costs for "lawyer vaccine" (product liability insurance) and R&D must be spread over fewer doses.

I practice Emergency Medicine in Michigan. Luckily, our rabid animal population is low. We currently treat all fox, bat, racoon, skunk, and woodchuck bites. Yes - woodchucks have been found to carry rabies. We treat "unprovoked" cat bites when the animal can't be found. In Michigan we generally don't treat dog, mouse, rat, rabbit or chipmunk bites.

Each state collects statistics regarding rabid animals. Contact your state health department for information regarding which animal bites need treatment in your state.

The following link is pretty technical for non-physicians, but it gives some good information regarding rabies:

<font color=blue>http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic493.htm</font color=blue>

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

DocHeb,

Why would anyone be "hyperimmunized"? Do you mean someone like a Vet, that might need to be given boosters on a regular basis because of a day to day risk of exposure?

SHF

 

[DocHeb]

Vets are one source. There is also money to be made by furnishing your serum. Although I'm not in the industry, I'd bet there are people that have become hyperimmunized so they can sell their serum. They pull your blood off, separate and save the antibody containing serum (the liquid the blood cells float in), and put the blood cells back in. You can donate whole blood at the Red Cross each six weeks, but plasmaphoresis can be done a couple times a week. Personally, it seems like a hard way to make a few bucks.

 

[DrDan]

Burial is fine; incineration is good to. Clothes should be fine with just washing in hot water with lots of detergent. You see, post exposure is a lot different than being vaccinated prior to exposure. When vaccinated prior you have "time" for the immunity to build up. I believe i had two doses given intradermal (just under the surface of the skin) about a month apart. I then have my titer checked every two or three years.

Hope this helps.

Dr Dan

 

[DrDan]

LOL Von

The nurse probably wanted to hurt ya! Might have been a whopping dose of pennicillin just to get ya attention.

Dr Dan

 

[DrDan]

Thanks for your clarification Doc Heb. I didn't know they gave Immune serum but it sounds like an excellent idea to get the immunity instantly to kill the virus. Yes "all" mammals can contract rabies but for some reason it is rare in anything but dogs, cats, horse, cattle, skunks, racoons, bats, fox and no clue about coyotes.

One time in vet school we had to watch a movie of a human dying of Rabies in the Phillipines. God it was horrible!!!

Dr Dan

 

[Boondox]

Survivors!!!

This afternoon my four golden retrievers each showed up with a tiny chick in their mouths...and the pack was being chased by one outraged hen! The flock lives! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[RichZ]

Re: Survivors!!!

Pete, leave it to the dogs to discover that things aren't as bad as they seemed!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif And the dogs picked up chicks in their mouths without even hurting them!!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I'm real glad to hear that the flocks lives!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Finally some good news, after this disaster!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif
Rich