Loss of power steering when FEL maxed out

[s219]

The LA364 loader on my B2920 has a lift capacity of 950 lb or so. I had to lift an 850 lb generator on pallet today, but of course the pallet probably weighs 50 lbs (it's a beefy one) and my clamp on forks are 100 lb, and I was so excited about the project I forgot to take that extra weight into account when planning things (I figured I had 100 lb to spare, well duh).

I was able to lift the pallet up off my trailer about an inch and curl the bucket to lift and back out, but about halfway along my route to the garage the power steering got pretty weak. Everything was fine again after I deposited the generator in my garage, but I am curious about the loss of power steering. Can anyone with more expertise on the hydraulics system on the B series educate me on what exactly happened?

To put the generator on it's pad I will dolly into place and then lift with chains from the bucket to lift points on the generator. Without the pallet and clamp on forks, I should be back in the 850 lb range and hopefully OK at that point. It did cross my mind that this is a good excuse to buy a bigger tractor, but even I think that's bonkers....

thanks,
219

 

[jeep07]

I have the exact same setup and have maxed mine out a few times. Ive never really noticed steering be to difficult, but rather slowed down some. I attributed it to all the extra weight on the front axle kingpins and just part of the deal when lifting extra weight. Concrete will have more resistance than dirt will as well.

I've contemplated a larger machine but the b's are a great size. Anything larger would be cumbersome for my needs.

This Press maxed it out. Older 40ton which is built like a newer 80 ton.

 

[s219]

Hmm, maybe it was just extra resistance on the tires when turning. I was on concrete with exposed aggregate surface, which is quite grabby.

 

[Tollster]

I have the same issue with my BX23, but believe its due to the low tire pressures I run in the woods. How did the front tires look? I had a flat this weekend with a full load and noticed it was getting tough to turn a few loads before the flat. So low air pressure will stiffen it up considerably under load.

 

[s219]

I'll have to check pressure tomorrow to see. They look OK, but could still be low.

 

[Stokes]

While I've no idea on how the weight might have affected the PS, the calculations you made were probably lighter than the machine experienced just because the weight was even farther out on the forks, and not in the bucket itself. You were more than maxed out.

 

[J_J]

I believe it would depend on where the steering hyd fluid originates.

Is it from a separate hyd pump? If it is, should not affect anything else.

Is the flow from a flow divider. Is the flow divider using a set flow for steering, and excess flow for the attachments?

Is the steering valve in series with the loader. If the steering is getting fluid first, the rest of the system may slow.

On my Power-Trac, when I am steering, the lift is very much affected, almost to a stop.

I looked at the hyd section from Messicks.com

Your hyd pump has two sections, one for the attachments, and one for the steering, pumping fluid from the tank.

The only reason that I can think of is that if using the loader to max, you were close to stall, and the rpm of the engine decreased and therefore the volume of the steering pump decreased.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My B26 TLB will sometimes hesitate with the steering when I am using the FEL. It is only momentary but it does seem that the steering is momentarily starved for fluid. Maybe just the nature of the Kubota beast to do that when using the FEL. It doesn't do anything wicked when not supplying power to move some function on the FEL though regardless of the load. I cant see how the load on the FEL would interfere with steering if you have the valve locked and not moving anything. Sure it will be a bit harder to steer but it should still turn ok. Mine will just momentarily refuse to turn sometimes for just a half second or so.

 

[rider0]

The LA364 loader on my B2920 has a lift capacity of 950 lb or so. I had to lift an 850 lb generator on pallet today, but of course the pallet probably weighs 50 lbs (it's a beefy one) and my clamp on forks are 100 lb, and I was so excited about the project I forgot to take that extra weight into account when planning things (I figured I had 100 lb to spare, well duh).

I was able to lift the pallet up off my trailer about an inch and curl the bucket to lift and back out, but about halfway along my route to the garage the power steering got pretty weak. Everything was fine again after I deposited the generator in my garage, but I am curious about the loss of power steering. Can anyone with more expertise on the hydraulics system on the B series educate me on what exactly happened?

To put the generator on it's pad I will dolly into place and then lift with chains from the bucket to lift points on the generator. Without the pallet and clamp on forks, I should be back in the 850 lb range and hopefully OK at that point. It did cross my mind that this is a good excuse to buy a bigger tractor, but even I think that's bonkers....

thanks,
219

The B2920 has separate hydrostatic/steering and hydraulic pumps so unless you were somehow stalling the engine, your steering shouldn't have been affected at all. Have you checked the state and level of your UDT hydraulic fluid?

Furthermore, the LA364 is rated at 950 lbs at the pivot pin - with clamp on forks moving the load out and the length of a pallet, I'd think your effective lifting capacity would be closer to 600 lbs. I can't imagine any way you'd be able to lift a 900lb pallet + 100lb clamp on forks with that loader/tractor combination.

 

[techman]

The B2920 has separate hydrostatic/steering and hydraulic pumps so unless you were somehow stalling the engine, your steering shouldn't have been affected at all. Have you checked the state and level of your UDT hydraulic fluid?

Furthermore, the LA364 is rated at 950 lbs at the pivot pin - with clamp on forks moving the load out and the length of a pallet, I'd think your effective lifting capacity would be closer to 600 lbs. I can't imagine any way you'd be able to lift a 900lb pallet + 100lb clamp on forks with that loader/tractor combination.

I lifted my 650 lb genset with my BX22. The trick is to chain off at the top of the bucket and lift by curling the bucket. After my lift, we drove the truck out from under the load and carefully lowered the bucket. Using the bucket lift is only good for 300-350 lbs.

paul

 

[kennyd]

9 replies and not one mention of rear ballast....
Did you have any? If so, how much did it weigh? You need a fair amount of weight on the 3PH behind the rear axle to transfer some weight off of the front axle.

With clamp-on forks the weight is very far forward as mention, I thing your lucky to have lifted it at all!

 

[s219]

Yes, I had my box blade on the 3-point, which is about 475 lbs. I figured I could have added more weight on that if I detected the need, but did not get the sense it was required (one time long ago I lifted a bucket of gravel with no rear ballast and still remember what that felt like, but this was nothing like that).

The generator actually weighs 902 lbs according to better specs I found, and I know the forks are 100 lbs, plus they put the load out in front. Then the pallet. So I was definitely way past the 850 I had in my head!

This was not a well planned lift. I hope to do better when I move the generator from my garage to its final location... This has been one of those projects where the cost and complexity are a bit more than I expected. I had wondered why the local generator company charges $8000-10000 for labor, but now I know. It's all fairly easy work, but when you factor in grading, pouring a slab, running conduit, doing electrical, fuel plumbing/tanks, building an enclosure, etc... it's quite the project. Very labor and parts/supplies intensive. I've been keeping UPS and Fedex hopping.

 

[check]

Paul, my BX25 bucket will certainly lift more than 350 lbs. The trick of course is to center the load as much as possible over the pivot point of the bucket. Plus, I can carry about 600 pounds or so of rocks and or dirt, or whatever, as long as the bucket is evenly balanced when full.

It is just too bad that my 2009 BX25 FEL bucket does not detach easily, or I could do so and then have even a higher lift capacity.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Power steering can only apply so much steering force. It has a relief valve that limits pressure.

 

[npalen]

I find on my old school B9200 that a little RPM helps a bunch when steering with a heavy load on the FEL. It has a flow divider valve built into the hydraulic block but don't recall whether the power steering gets priority.