Looking for advice on cleaning up a clear cut pine plantation

[UncleBuck1]

Piston:

Roughly how many stumps can you grind in a day? I'm starting to think that a tractor with a grapple and a 3-point stump grinder may be the best "DIY" option for my situation.

 

[JakeBrake]

We bought a 20 acre piney woods tract in central Mississippi in 1972. After reading this thread I checked it out with this thread in mind.

When we bought the place the virgin long leaf pine stumps were still there. They were about 3-4' tall and had been cut with ax/crosscut saw. These stumps are as solid as rocks and will last forever unless they are removed or burned. Back in the day there was a big business in removing these stumps and hauling them to turpentine plants. When I was a boy I would see long railroad trains made up of gondolas full of long leaf pine stumps. Actually, I hauled one up and placed it in my front yard as a yard ornament. All the bark and side roots are gone and the wood is a weathered gray color. The ax marks are as sharp as the day the tree was cut.

When the long leaf pines were cut down, loblolly and short leaf pine and also yellow poplar and a variety of other trees naturally regenerated and replaced the long leaf pine. In a natural regeneration situation long leaf pines will lose out. This is mainly because long leaf pine MUST have periodic contolled burns, especially in the first few years. Loblolly and short leaf pine can thrive without burns. Of course, periodic burns are good for loblolly and short leaf pine also.

In 1972 this tract was covered with mainly mature loblolly and short leaf pines and yellow poplar. Yellow poplar is a valuable timber tree that can live and let live amongst the pines. Oak, hickory, sweetgum, redcedar and most other common trees will battle the pines to the death. I'm told there are herbicides available that will kill everything except pine and yellow poplar.

Fast forward to 1999. The tract experienced a severe infestation of the southern pine beatle. To salvage what we could we we executed a timber deed to a logging company. The deed allowed the loggers to clearcut the tract. We told the loggers to leave the slash where it fell. The topography is extremely steep, like in the mountains. Erosion was a major concern and you can't do much with a regular tractor.

After the mature trees were cut and the soil was disturbed and sun reached the ground, countless seeds sprouted, mainly loblolly, short leaf, yellow poplar and some weed trees. The loggers left some pine seed trees, although I don't think that was really necessary. In 2005 the pine trees were so thick that Hurricane Katrina did very little damage except around the perimeter.

Fast forward to 2012 the tract is covered with pulpwood size trees that need to be thinned.

I had not thought much about the stumps since they don't bother me. So, the virgin long leaf stumps are still there, however, I think the loggers hauled off some of them. The stumps of the trees killed by the southern pine beatles are totally rotted as far as I can tell. The stumps of the trees that were cut in 1999 are still very much there. They are about 1' tall and up to 2' in diameter. they have started to rot but the heart pine core is solid.

I would contact the Mississippi Forestry Commission County Forester in the county where the property is located. The County Foresters are a valuable resource and their basic services are free to Mississippi residents. I don't know about foreigners.

 

[Piston]

Piston:

Roughly how many stumps can you grind in a day? I'm starting to think that a tractor with a grapple and a 3-point stump grinder may be the best "DIY" option for my situation.

Wow, well unclebuck, that really is a hard question for me to answer. It would depend on many things, obviously size of stump being one major factor. You mentioned most of yours are 12"-14" diameter. Also, how high are they? If they are close to the ground, 3" or so, you can get them down really fast. If they're 2' off the ground, you'd be better off cutting them down with a chainsaw, and then grinding them.

Is it really rocky where you are?

If the stumps are pretty close together, and less than 14" in diameter, and lets say 3" above ground level, then I could grind a stump like that in 5-10min.
I mostly grind larger stumps which take me somewhere between 10-20min a piece, but we're talking about 24"+ diamter, that flare out a lot right at the surface, so I would have to reposition multiple times. With a 14" stump, I'd probably start near the back of the stump, move forward 8" or so, and do the front of the stump, if you wanted to get down deep. If you just wanted it 6" below the surface, you could get away with not moving at all. I think the stumpgrinder has a 3' diameter wheel on it, so it can take a good size stump.

Look through some of my old posts on stumpgrinding. I have done a lot less stumps than some people on here. Check out some posts by Foggy and I THINK mossflowerwoods, or mosswoods???
ALso keep in mind, that my stumpgrinder is rated at 35-100pto hp. I have 39, so I'm at the bottom end of power. If I were you, I would look at 50hp+ and you would demolish those stumps in no time.

For a dream setup, check out Pclausen's thread on his stumpgrinder.

Type the following into a google search and you'll come up with some good estimates of your own.

Shaver SC50 stumpgrinder site:www.tractorbynet.comm

Shaver SC25 stumpgrinder site:www.tractorbynet.comm

Woods SG50 stumpgrinder site:www.tractorbynet.comm

Woods SG100 stumpgrinder site:www.tractorbynet.comm
(only use one "m" I had to put 2 in or it hyperlinked funny)

also, if you type those into google (just copy and past them) then search google images, you'll come up with some great pictures.





I have been trying to think of a better setup than a good sized tractor, FEL grapple, and PTO stumpgrinder, for your situation (minimal ground disturbance for erosion, and creating something along the lines of pasture land) and I honestly can't think of anything better, assuming you want to do it yourself with equipment you want to own.

There are much faster (and costlier, and less fun) ways to do this, but I think a setup such as this would be a very good way to go, in my opinion. (just get more power than I have!)

 

[yellowdogsvc]

My first inclination is to mulch or use a stump grinder. For stumps the size you mentioned, however, a 20" tree shear on a skid steer can probably cut 500-700 stumps a day. You can quickly pile up the stumps for burning or composting with the same machine and a grapple or skeleton bucket.

I get called to do this type of work all the time on juniper where the post harvesters have left stumps. The shear is by far the fastest method for a reasonable price but it is only going to get a 14" stump to slightly below ground level.
For more cost per hour, mulching will get the stumps down quickly and you won't have any clean up but you will probably only get to ground level, too, and that could affect discing.
Stump grinding is probably cheaper than mulching but will be slow on a smaller platform machine like a high-end skid steer but you can get them down as deep as you need for discing purposes.

I'd look for a 20" tree shear. You can rent one and for stumping, the learning curve isn't very long. I like tree terminator because it cuts clean. There are other manufacturers but not many 20" shears in skid steer setup.

 

[ShearHeadMS]

Just went and bought a savanna plow to pull behind my D9H, just finished a 60 acre planting job doing a one pass technique, I could make one pass with the shear blade and plow and have the planters right behind me. That plow can bust the stumps up really good to!!

 

[Piston]

Just went and bought a savanna plow to pull behind my D9H, just finished a 60 acre planting job doing a one pass technique, I could make one pass with the shear blade and plow and have the planters right behind me. That plow can bust the stumps up really good to!!

I don't know what a savanna plow is, but please tell me you have some pictures of that!

 

[ShearHeadMS]

I'll see if I can upload them for you guys, it just plows up Terrence rows mostly

 

[Ken]

Re: unclebuck1

Well, I signed a purchase agreement yesterday and I'm closing on the 31st, so these questions aren't so abstract now.


Lots of good advice so far, but this one caught my eye:



will pine stumps in the 12-14" range (small saw logs) really rot to ground level in 5-6 years? As I mentioned in my first post the land was logged last spring- say 18 months ago- and if this is correct I might let time do the work of an excavator or stump grinder.

2008 I had a tornado level 30 acres Oak type hard wood and pine
Had a dozer push and pile the hard wood except the large stumps. the pine stumps decayed to where can bump with FWL and usually they pop off underground. . Also the dozer push into a 1/4 mile windrows and would start burn at one end and drove to other and lite then lit the middle of row and in a 1/2 day most cleaned up.

The dozer surfaced all of the rock buried from time past so now clearing the rock off the cattle grazing areas . Some time in future will be able to mow
Maybe this helps in the decision
ken