Log Cabin with Bark Siding

[rox]

Don't know if any of you ever look at the www.HGTV.com website, but every year they build a Dream Home and give it away. This year they built a very unique house that used log veneer, and since so many of the people here on TBN seem to like a rustic look you may be interested in watching this video of how they did it. On this page, Clcik on the Log Veneer & then the Log Chinking
http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/pac_ctnt_ihdr/text/0,2595,HPRO_20976_40179,00.html

Ont his page, scroll down the video list until you come to Log & Bark Siding. They used Bark to side the house and it came out really really nice! I never heard of Bark siding before.
http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt_988/text/0,,HGTV_22056_32757,00.html

 

[bmac]

rox,

Did you enter the contest to win the house?

 

[rox]

well you have to be a resident of the USA, so I couldn't register to win. However I registered both my children, so i hope one of them wins. This home has really captured my imagination. I lovet he fact that at 5,000 sqf form the outside it doesn't look like a monstrosity. I love the exterior look of this home, the architect is really something. And I know that is a sore subject with you /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Since my son is in the Peace Corps in Guinea Africa, and if he wins, I hope they will consider him a resident just like they would a military person. Like a military person is stationed overseas, doens't mean tha he isn't a resident. Anyway the chances of winning are so slim that it will probably never be an issue. You can register to win once a day.

I love watching the construction videos of these Dream Homes. I went on the chat board and suggested that on their next Dream Home thy build one with a swim up bar. Those are so cool, jsut liek in the resorts. Some day when I build my pool here in Provence I am going to build it with a swim up bar.

What did you think fo the bark siding? Did you like it?

 

[EddieWalker]

Rox,

Last year they built the Dream House here in Tyler. They made it out to be this magnificent home that anybody would want, but in reality, it's a disaster that people joke about.

The architect wasn't from around here, and if I remember right, he was from Austin. That's about 200 miles South West of Tyler.

He designed a home that might work in there, but here, we get freezing weather in the winter and extreme humidty in the winter.

He designed a house with a DETACHED master bedroom. You have to go outside to leave your bedroom!!!!

The winner of the house is from out of state. Very poor and doesn't have a job. His previous house was 800 sq ft.

He was given $100,000 along with the house, but owes over a million dollars on taxes for the house. It's been for sale for awhile now, but he's holding out for a miracle before his taxes are due on April 15. It's a source of speculation what will happen if he doesn't sell it and clear escrow before then.

He didn't list it with a realtor and doesn't have an asking price. He announced he's accepting sealed bids on it and the highest bidder will get it.

Anyway, to your observation about this years home. When I saw the special and the siding with the bark on it, I thought it was a composit.

I was shocked when they said it was real wood with the bark still attached. They never mentioned how the bark will stay on the wood, or how bugs will stay out from living under the bark.

My guess is it's one of those experiments that the winner of the house will have to fix. There's just too many issues with it for me to think its something I'd want to have on my home.

The setting is amazng along with the outdoors living area, but overall, it has too many experimental eliments to it for me. If I won it, I'd sell it just like every single winner of these homes has done since they started this.

Eddie

 

[rox]

Eddie,
Have a look at this website, a Bark manufacturer.
http://www.highlandcraftsmen.com/faqbarksiding.htm
The Kiln Dry the shingles. What is the difference between using Cedar Shingles and Bark Shingles? Both are wood. Why would insects go for the bark shingles and not the cedar shingles. For that matter I had redwood siding on my last hous and huge wood shake roof. I didn't have any insect issues.

Read the FAQ's formt he website, they have been watching a Bark home built nt he 1930's that exists in harsh conditions, belwo zero weather, and no problems. If you think about hundreds of year old trees, the bark is still good.

When combined with the log veneer I think the outcome is very pretty. It's really unique.

 

[Tom_H]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What is the difference between using Cedar Shingles and Bark Shingles? Both are wood. Why would insects go for the bark shingles and not the cedar shingles.)</font>

One of my degrees is in biology. Cedar and redwood produce powerful toxins that prevent virtually any organism from functioning as what is called a decomposer. Dead redwood trees do not rot as much as they simply weather away over hundreds of years.

I also live in a log home. The maintenance is endless. Every summer I have to wire brush peeling stain and recoat. Every summer I have to clean out hundreds of feet of tiny checks and refill with acrylic silicone.

In the pioneer days, some people did build log homes without debarking. All those structures are long since rotted away. I stay very current in my reading on log homes and out of the multiple hundreds of producers, I am not aware of even one that doesn't debark the logs. I have seen a couple of companies that use hickory or poplar that has been heavily treated with preservative for interior siding. Dead bark splits and cracks much worse than wood. It gets damp and stays damp, yet allows air to get in at the same time. It is nutrient rich and does not have a strong cellular structure. It is an ideal incubator for copious types of decomposers: insects, woodpeckers, fungi, mold, lichens, moss, etc., et al. The idea of comparing redwood or cedar to bark is one of the most ludicrous notions I have ever heard. Hickory saplings will maintain a strong bond with their bark if kept dry and in fairly constant low humidity. It makes beautiful rustic furniture, but if it were exposed to the elements, it would soon rot. I don't care how much preservative these people claim to have used to pickle this bark, it is not going to last.

Anyone who builds, lives in, or even thinks that he won't have problems with a house built with nondebarked wood that is exposed to rain and sun is grossly misinformed.

 

[rox]

Tom_H,
Many thanks for your informed reply.

 

[PitbullMidwest]

Eddie,
On one of my business trips to Texas I was taken to the "La Hacienda Ranch" restaurant in the Ft Worth area. First thing I noticed was the building was bark covered logs. My inlaws have a log home and I couldn't imagine leaving the bark on, my first thought was "what about bugs?".

Apparently they've worked out the details.

 

[EddieWalker]

Maybe.

One thing about that part of Texas compared to my area and the area of the Dream Home is humidity. They don't have it, we do.

Log homes and huge maintenance projects that never end. In areas with allot of humidity and moisture, the level of maintenance increases dramatically.

I don't know if the bark will last on that home or not. I'm not familiar with how it was treated or any details about it at all.

I do know that it wouldn't be on anything I built or owned.

My experience is that bark doesn't last when exposed to the elements. It's a host for bugs to either feed or live.

Just because the manufacturer saws it will last means nothing to me. I won't believe it until it's a proven product. Let the other guy experiment with his home, I'm not taking the risk.

One more expample.

In California where I'm from, people use redwood for exposed construction. If it's going to be painted, than pine and fir is used without any problems.

Here in East Texas, pine and fir are never used for exterior applications. It will start rotting in months if the bugs don't get to it first.

Two totally different worlds and what works in one place doesn't in another.

Overall, I think the house is interesting, but stand by my statement that I wouldn't want it. I can understand how other people will disagree with me on this, but we all have different backgrounds and aproaches to what makes a good home versus a disaster.

Eddie

 

[beenthere]

In all probablility, the bark will not stay on. Between the bark and the wood of a tree is the 'cambium' layer, which is the growing cells of the tree. These cells produce the wood and are protected by the bark. At certain times of the year, like in the winter, these cells are dormant so are a bit stronger than during the growing periods. If the bark wood is harvested during this 'winter' period, then there is a chance that the bark will stay tight to the wood when first put on the house as siding. However, after that the shrinkage and swelling characteristics of bark and wood are different, so there will be a constant stress on this bark wood boundary during the weather changes (low to high humidity) as mentioned. Maybe in a dry climate, but wetting during rainy periods will add stress to that boundary as well. So, the odds that the bark will stay on the wood for more than a few years have to be very poor.
Amazing that people want to 'go back' to previous times. Bark on wood on houses was likely a 'poor mans' home that was at best 'temporary' shelter. Some with log homes realize how much work it is to keep a log home from rotting away.

 

[scesnick]

I have a log home and this notion that they are very high maintenance is a myth. The one key to keeping your log home low maintenance is to be sure to only build with kiln dried logs. As a matter of fact there is now a product out that requires you to stain the exterior just one single time in a 20 year period !
I have heard all the horror stories about log homes and high maint. and shifting logs, etc.. if you look into it they are all air dried log packages that have the problems. Kiln dried is . in fact, more expensive initially but, well worth the piece of mind. The Company i bought my home from has a 100 yr. warranty. No air dried log company will ever give you that.

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Some with log homes realize how much work it is to keep a log home from rotting away. )</font>

Not necessarily..

Here's a log home on the opposite side of the Smokies that's approaching 200 years old (built in 1820) and has likely never seen paint nor preservative of any kind...

I also have no experience with hickory bark siding -- too expensive for my budget -- but I know of several mountain resorts/lodges in that area that have it on them -- for well over 50 years now. Most are from the early 1900s...

Couple more keys to using logs, board-and-batten, or any unpainted wood is to use DEEEEEP overhangs to keep rain and sun off it, and to make sure the wood is 18" or more off the ground, so rain/dirt doesn't splatter up on it...

 

[Tom_H]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( this notion that they are very high maintenance is a myth.)</font>

In my case and the case of the vast majority of all log home owners, it certainly is not myth. It is first hand knowledge. Perhaps a more accurate statement might be, "the notion that they must be high maintenance is a myth." In 1993, I paid $48,000 for just the logs for a 2800 ft.2 house. The logs are Doug Fir, cut green at above 8500 ft. MSL in Montana, and air dried in an open air barn for 19 months. A check groove was cut to the center of each with a chain saw to reduce checking. Logs on the north side of the house and those protected by porch overhangs are fine. We have cold wet winters and hot dry summers. The highs of up to 115 degrees blister the outside of the southernly exposed logs and open micro-checks all up and down the logs. Keeping these checks sealed against water is a nightmare. These didn't start appearing until the house was 4 or 5 y.o.

How much did you pay for your logs and what is the size of the house? How long have you been in the house? Do you have overhangs all around the house? What kind of climate do you have (temp., humidity)? What is this new product? I'd like to hear more about the specifics of your situation.

 

[Alan L.]

The only problem is that they probably value it about 3 times what its worth, so by the time you mortgage it to pay the taxes on your winnings you aren't that much ahead.

 

[Tom_H]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Here's a log home on the opposite side of the Smokies that's approaching 200 years old (built in 1820) and has likely never seen paint nor preservative of any kind...)</font>

I take this word <font color="blue"> likely </font> to mean that you don't really know whether that's true and that you're guessing. I sincerely doubt that it is true. Those old log structures often have had many logs pulled out and replaced. The construction methods of those houses actually makes it not too difficult to jack up several courses of logs, pull rotted ones out, and replace them. This is not possible with most modern methods of log construction. My house has threaded rod running through the saddle notch joints, The logs are toenailed with 5 inch nails and 1" dia. 4' long steel drift pins were driven into pilot holes drilled all up and down the run of each course. I'll be happy to retract my statement if you can present documented proof of what you have claimed.

 

[beenthere]

scesnick
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifYou may believe that if you wish. Not a problem with me if you do. The myth, IMO, is that log homes are so durable and examples of something claimed to be 200 years old with the implication that they are the 'original' logs are passed around to try to substantiate that myth. I don't believe it for a second.
Log homes are beautiful structures, and I like to stay in them on occasion to enjoy that beauty.
Now, I'll let this thread drift back to the subject of bark siding. I didn't mean to cause it to deviate away from that. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[scesnick]

I think the key here is that you have air dried logs. No matter for how long , they are still air dried. What kind of warranty did the company you bought them from give you? I agree that sealing the checks is very important but you also have to stack the logs according to the way the checks face. Any check that is facing upwards will collect water and that log should be either turned around or not used.
I have an Old Timer Log home. 3,400 sq. ft. yellow pine "8" Saddlenotch "D" logs. I live at 3,000 ft in the Md/Wv. mountains and in a very high wind area. I also grew up in a log home ( kiln dried ) with zero problems.
My home is 6 yrs. old no problems so far.
Again the key here is kiln dried logs. I have a freind that built an air dried log home to save a few bucks 5 years ago. he is paying the price now. His cabinets fell off the wall, doors won't open/shut. logs are shifting...it's just a mess.
check this site out http://www.oldtimerloghomes.com/importance.htm

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'll be happy to retract my statement if you can present documented proof of what you have claimed. )</font>

Well, all I know is that it hasn't been painted, stained, nor sealed in my 50+ year lifetime, so you likely won't need to eat your words... But, that doesn't mean that you have the "final word" of authority on the subject, either.

This building, the John Oliver cabin, and quite a few more of its age are in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. I have two sets of great-grandparents buried not far from this old house, but I can't readily query them to see if it had ever been painted in the 1800s....

Another key to the longevity of these, and of some of the modern machined ones of the same style, is that the exposed sides are primarily heartwood, since the sapwood has been hewn/sawn off to make the flat, slab sides. This flat sided log profile also doesn't have the round, upturned profile that catches the sun and rain and checks as you describe. Another key is that they use dove-tailed corner joints that do not protrude out from the walls like saddle-notch or other corner joints. (Ends of the logs act like wicks, pulling moisture into the walls. ) Finally these were made from "old-growth" trees, many of them American Chesnut (straight grain that split easily).

Bottom line is that there are MANY variables in how long log houses/cabins can last, and to blanketly categorize them as high maintenance is NOT accurate. There are many log houses in Europe that are 500 - 1000 years old. Almost universally, they are flat-sided logs with some form of a recessed corner, even if not dovetailed.

I doubt that some of today's advertised "maintenance free" products like vinyl siding will last that long before they crumble away due to exposure to the elements. Meanwhile, I'll bet that the "reclaimed" logs used in this "showcase" house are already over 100 years old, and are being used again.

 

[scesnick]

Tom H,

I researched log homes for 2 years and even visited a few of our final picks of manufacturers before we spent that kind of money on a log home. The method of putting together a log home that you decribed is a tell tale sign that the logs are NOT sufficiently dried. that is why you have the threaded rod running through your saddle notches.
I'm also going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have to actually tighten these rods everey once in a while, a borate bug treatment to exterior logs, that should be repeated every few years,, etc...
In this type of construction there is going to be a good amount of maintenance involved. These rods are there for a reason. and that reason is ( although the manufacturer of this package will probably deny ) that the walls are going to shift sooner than later with air dried logs.
How are your kitchen cabinets mounted?
how big of a gap was required around your exterior doors?
My point is this, The amount of maintainence involved in owning a log home depends on what type of log you buy ( air dried or kiln dried) and what the manufacturers building method is used.
BTW, I have seen very few old abandoned " stick built " homes that have last anywhere near as long as old abandoned log homes.

 

[beenthere]

scesnick
The theme here has been bark siding and relating that to maintaining with resect to decay of the wood. Not shrinkage of the wood as a result of seasoning over time.

Your theme of 'kiln drying' and its advantage with respect to the walls 'settling' is a bit different, and even kiln dried logs or home timbers will decay if they are not protected from water/moisture by either large overhangs, treated wood, or natural resistance of heartwood. You 'researched' a lot, but you missed 'a lot' and probably heard just the things that you wanted to hear. About wood, you will learn a lot more with your log home. Trust me. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Those sales people know the right combination of words and 'tell tale' signs of their competitors to distract one from the real problems to be faced.
I don't mean to pick on you, but there are many readers who might be interested in learning more, and I'd like to suggest there is more information, rather than just 'this-information'. I don't mean to play down one bit that 'kiln dried' logs is not good (just would wonder what 'kiln dried' with respect to house logs really means however /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).