Loader considerations

OrangeAlex · Oct 12, 2005

( Here's a simple rule for any tractor:

Buy the biggest machine you think you can afford to do the job. You will never buy a tractor that's too big, but you most certainly will buy one that's too small = underpowered.

You should also look at tractors outside the big brand names. Since none of the tractors are made in the USA there all imports. The one nice thing about the off brand tractors is the much lower price you'll pay. With that savings you can buy all the implements you'll need. As far as the Front End Loader is concerned, go to Koykers website. They'll match virtually any machine to the recommended loader and you can look up the specs.

)

I am sorry.. I really can't agree with these statements.

1. It is very possible to buy a tractor that is too big. You have to size it for what your needs are and what your constraints are to weight, width, length, turning radius, etc. Dont tell me you think an 80hp tractor can do a better job finish mowing a small lawn with obstacles just as well as ZTR.
2. I am pretty sure JD and NH are made in the US. Components like engines maybe be made elsewhere, does not mean the rest of the tractor isn't built in the US. Not that this is important to me to buy American, but it might be to someone else. Anyhow, I don't follow your logic here.. Are you saying that its all made in China so just buy something that does not have the American name brand on it? This thinking is misleading and a bit twisted. You are not substituting a equivelent generic prescription drug for a name brand here.
3. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Don't expect to find a cheaper tractor with the same capabilities, reliability, access to parts and service, size of dealer network, and resale as an more expensive tractor. Both across brands and within the same brand.

ok.. so what is your loader lift requirements? How much do you want to lift on a REGULAR basis. Remember, whatever number you pick there will always be a tractor able to lift more. You need to come up with a realistic number here which you REGULARLY need to lift. Not some MAX number which you will lift a few times in the tractor's lifetime. Paying for this MAX which will only be required a few times in the tractor's lifetime is not the best way to spend your money. Know what I mean? If you want an example, take a look at the Huge number of RVs and Boats sitting in peoples driveways for 300 days of the year.

n4807g · Oct 12, 2005

Mow a lawn...OK I thought we were talking tractors. But you're right I have about 1/4 acre of lawn I mow it with a push mower. If I had a 2 acre lawn I'd buy a riding mower. JD and NH aren't made in the USA (sorry). There aren't any utility, or compact, or sub compact tractors made in this country. Only big farm tractors over 100 Hp.

When you buy one of the "name" brand machines you're buying a machine made in Eastern Europe, South Korea, Japan, India, Russia, Turkey or China and more countries. The manufacturers are sourcing parts from the same regions....so what are you paying for? Kubota is a nice tractor, but why the fancy $'s. You might also find in the next 5 years that GM or Ford cars aren't made here either....

As for tractor size, to a degree you're right; small requirement = small tractor. Don't buy an 80 Hp tractor when you need a 35 Hp tractor. But I've talked to more people who wish they'd bought a bigger tractor than a smaller tractor. It usually happens at around 50Hp. As for parts and maintenance, it's in the eye of the beholder. If you want to just dial a # and have all the work done that's fine. I bought a Belarus 572 in 1992 ($12,500 with a cab) and everyone said I was nuts...parts, dealer support, on and on. 656 hours later she's running fine (maybe I was lucky). I do agree that you have to have a little mechanical ability but I find most people with sizeable tractors can turn a wrench. By the way when I bought the 8240 a Mahindra dealer oferred me $6,500 for the Belarus. He already had a buyer.

One things for sure today. For a total of $38K spent over 14 years I own two tractors that run just fine. Both are big machines with cabs. Had I bought the "name" brand tractors I'd have around $70K spent and probably have traded the old tractor, but for how much? Here's an interesting article...our future?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051012/china_snow.html?.v=7

n4807g · Oct 12, 2005

I did notice he's talikng about PTO HP of 40-45. He's also concerned about capacity, capability and other implements, perhaps a back hoe? If he's concerned at 45 Hp, I'd say he's already in the gray area between a medium sized tractor and a bigger machine.

OrangeAlex · Oct 12, 2005

(
I am looking at tractors and initially looked at a Kubota L3430 against a JD 990. I leaned towards the Kubota until I found out how little payload it could handle with a grapple installed. Not a brand problem but a horsepower proble.
)

Actually, I think the HP issue is being confused with Hydraulic issue. More HP generally does helps with Loader capacity but is not the deciding factor. You can get a tractor with less HP but stronger loader capabilities. I think they jumped to a conclusion here that they need more HP. Not sure what PTO has to do with Loader capacity.

btw, I really don't wish to carry on our disagreement that there are no sub-compact or compact utility made in the US. Not going to try to get you to call something black when you think is white.

It might interest you to find a "foreign label" making tractors in the US. Goes both ways my friend. Scroll down to Kubota Manufacturing of America. I garantee you they are making them in the US vs Japan to save money. These are the BX series. I am sorry to say that making tractors in Japan to sell in the US, is more expensive to them then making them in the US. Their more expensive models are made in Japan. Go figure.

see below:
http://www.kubota.com/f/AboutKubota/companyInfo.cfm

OrangeAlex · Oct 12, 2005

(
... Kubota is a nice tractor, but why the fancy $'s. You might also find in the next 5 years that GM or Ford cars aren't made here either....
)

But you will find in the next 5 years more Toyota's, Honda's, are Nissan's are made in the US. ..and I would bet Hyandaui would do the same.

MessickFarmEqu · Oct 12, 2005

( The manufacturers are sourcing parts from the same regions....so what are you paying for? )

This ceritanaly is the case when you are looking at all your cheap chineese knock off tractors and budget imports, however when you are talking about the major players its simply not true.

n4807g · Oct 12, 2005

Oh...the parts all come from Japan? What do you sell a 4wd M8200 for? Since you're a Kubota dealer (good machines) you'd know where Kubota parts come from. My understanding is that Japan is financing and building as many or more facilities in China to supply themselves (the Japanese) with parts than any other country in the world. They are subject to the same cost constraints that have forced our manufacturers to move off shore.

You use the word "cheap" when you mention Chinese tractors, perhaps some of those same "cheap" parts are in big orange tractors?

Have you seen or driven a Euroleopard 824, Farm Pro 8240, or Foton 824? The Perkins diesel they utilize is a nice engine.

I'd guess an M8200 with a suitable loader probably sells in the area of $45,000 to $50,000. No cheap chinese parts there. They also rate the HP at higher RPM's = smaller engines.

OrangeAlex · Oct 12, 2005

( (
I am looking at tractors and initially looked at a Kubota L3430 against a JD 990. I leaned towards the Kubota until I found out how little payload it could handle with a grapple installed. Not a brand problem but a horsepower proble.
)

Actually, I think the HP issue is being confused with Hydraulic issue. More HP generally does helps with Loader capacity but is not the deciding factor. You can get a tractor with less HP but stronger loader capabilities. I think they jumped to a conclusion here that they need more HP. Not sure what PTO has to do with Loader capacity.

)

To prove my statement TonyRico.. the L3130 (31 HP) with LA723 Loader has a higher loader lift capacity then the L4400 (44 HP) that you are considering. Not sure who told you that the higher HP tractor will lift more then the L3430.

Also, the L3130(31 HP) has the exact same lift capacity as the L3430(34 HP) and L3830 (38HP). What kind of 3 PT implements do you expect to have to require lots of HP?

TexMex · Oct 12, 2005

you are making some good points OrangeAlex, the PTO horsepower is not related to the loader capacity, the PTO hp i s related to teh engine hp and the transmission (gear or hydro) but has nothing to do with the lift capacity. Also some people think heavier tractors lift moreand that is not true all the time eather. I ahve a big heavy tractor because of plow work, but it doesn't help at all with loader work, the weight has to be in the right places (the rear end) for weight to be an asset to loader work.

As for the china-japan debate, mine is Chinese and it is not nearly as nice as the Japanese machines. I know it, I see it daily, it is what is is. The Korean stuff I saw was much closer in build quality the Chinese machines than to the Japanese machines. I looked at all of them, the Japanese made machines are designed for the US market adn are simply built better and nicer and smoother than my Chinse or any of the Koreans. Go look.

OrangeAlex · Oct 12, 2005

TonyRico,

also a Kubota L39 (39 HP) has a higher lift capacity then that JD 5105 you are considering (50 HP). But hey.. then again, you probably can't pull that 96" wide brush cutter off the wimpy L39.

-Alex