lightning rods

   / lightning rods #21  
I should have given more info. The building is frame, no electricity yet but coming. Attached lean to is a metal roof, main roof is asphalt and siding is vinyl. I have copper ridge cap I wish to add. Just wondered how much concern with that. Hope it gets hot enough also to burn the feet of buzzards so they quit landing up there.
On my place, we built our stick house. We knew that there were lightning hits all around us before that point. Saw evidence on the trees as well as the nearby noise level. Specified a lightning rod system on the house and for 15 years it has worked perfectly. Such as system is designed to dissipate the electrical energy before the charge builds to a point where a strike occurs. Learned this in one of my engineering courses.

Next, we built a very large metal barn with concrete floor. It was not 3 months after building it that I found a big piece of sparred concrete around one of the frame columns. I knew it had to be due to a lightning hit. Nothing had been planned or implemented to deal with lightning, so I bought my own version of lightning protection - ground rods, and roof spikes. I planned to connect both to the steel frame so the frame was the conductor between. Remember that most homes are wood, so copper wiring must be added to their system. No so with a steel frame. I inserted 3 ground rods around the perimeter and wired them directly to the nearby frame. I still have the roof spikes; they were never installed. Turns out that is all that this building needed - never had any further issues in 10 years. What was missing was a connection between the metal and the ground - the concrete was a poor conductor, so that when the first lightning hit occurred, the concrete between steel and ground heated to the point that moisture in the concrete flashed - creating the sparring.

Buzzards - occasionally I still hear their toenails tap-tap-tapping on the steel roof. If I let out a few loud "barks", most times they will leave.
 
   / lightning rods #22  
Yes, they are occasionally used. Most don’t want expense.
Metal buildings don’t typically have them. It’s more important to ground the steel columns.
The lightning rods themselves aren’t the most important aspect, the idea is to get the lightning to flow on metal conductors (either steel columns or down conductors) instead of on combustible materials of higher electrical resistance (remember: high resistance is the same as an electric heater.)
The ground rods (electrodes) are most important so that the energy can be distributed into the ground. The more surface area in contact with the ground (be it multiple rods, a copper loop, water pipe, or foundation rebar) the better.
Think of it as pushing water into a pipe. If there’s only one restricted outlet, pressure will build up and want to escape elsewhere. But if the pipe has multiple outlets (like a drainage pipe), it will drain better and less pressure elsewhere.
 
   / lightning rods #23  
Ooh, time for my lightning rod story...

In '95 when we're building the house, we're putting a metal (copper) roof on. We're in upstate NY. Building inspector says "You gotta ground that roof. Code." "Huh? Show me." He rummages a while in his code books (before the days of everything on the internet), can only find a reference to grounding metal agricultural buildings. Anyway he says he went to a code conference and remembers this.

OK, I'm relatively maze-smart - don't argue with the building inspector - "So, how am I supposed to ground the roof?" Him: "Not my department, you ground it, I'll inspect it." me: "What about the zillion buildings with tin roofs that are around? Him: "Old construction, they're not looking for a C.O (certificate of occupancy)." I also get a line about safety - what if somebody is working on the roof and their electrical cords somehow connect to the roof so it's hot and somebody on the other side doesn't know this and gets shocked...

Well, sh**t. I start calling around to electricians. Some laugh at me. Some pity me - crazy inspector. At least one says "if lightning hits it, the house will light up like a toaster and burn down". One does give me a quote - $5,000 or so. I think of lightning rods...

Back to the building inspector. "If I put on lightning rods, will that suffice for your grounding requirement?" Him: "yep". Off to the local lightning rod company. They'll be glad to put on rods, tighten up the grounding everywhere for $2,400; "Deal." I get my C.O.

Now, 25+ years on, only one minor lightning hit, took out the circuit board on the garage door opener.

BTW, Lightning rod installations are done by UL-certified installers, and not covered (at least here) by the building code. You get a little plaque, usually next to your electrical service, attesting that the installation is compliant with the UL code, kind of like the sticker on your toaster.

BBTW, the theory of lightning rods (and why they are pointy) is that they are to drain away the static electricity that ultimately powers the lightning bolt. No static energy, no lightning strike. The use of like #2 or bigger conductors is to give a good, solid path to ground so if lightning does strike it will follow that path; you'll end up with some charred siding, maybe, but not big fire or everything electrical zapped. A good installation will NEVER have a wire go 'uphill', always level or downhill.
 
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   / lightning rods #24  
I'm near the east end of "lightning alley" in Florida, which runs from Tampa to Daytona. There are two buildings, a small house (standing steel roof, steel trusses and frame) and a 50 by 90 steel hangar 17 feet high at the ridgeline.

We've been here 11 years and haven't had a direct lighting strike yet BUT we've had some phones and computer stuff cooked by nearby strikes and we had a large pine tree perhaps 150 feet from our front door take a direct hit - and that was exciting! (The cat is still hiding under the bed . . . it's been a year.)

I've been poking around the internet looking for lightning protection since I regard lightning protection sort of like seat belts - you may never need them but if you do, now it is too late to fasten them.

Lot of information - first, lightning often strikes twice or more than twice. In fact, when there is a lightning strike, it creates a momentary channel of ionized air, and you can have multiple strikes through that channel in a matter of milliseconds. (Thunder is caused when that channel collapses.)

Second - lightning can be ground to air as well as air to ground, and it is just as destructive either way. Cloud to cloud lightning is harmless.

The ground rod(s) required by NEC (National Electric Code) and your building inspector is completely inadequate for lightning protection, and that isn't what it is for anyway.

Lightning can strike (or depart) from any structure no matter what it is made of. Stone, wood, metal, doesn't matter. It doesn't even have to be raining (although that helps by making the structure more conductive). In the middle ages, churches and cathedrals were often hit by lightning because they were the tallest things in town. People were advised to get out of the rain anywhere BUT the church or cathedral!


Now down to lightning protection on buildings we have . . .

Steel roof buildings need to use braided aluminum conductor wires (big, fat things, look like battery cables) because copper conductors on a galvanized steel roof will result in dissimilar metal corrosion. All the tie points, mount plates, air points and so forth need to be aluminum as well. If you don't want to drill holes in the building to mount the stuff, there is a construction adhesive (sells for $8 for a 10 ounce tube) which has a shear strength of 380 pounds per square inch (!) when it dries.

Down near the ground, we need to use a bimetallic connector, aluminum to copper, to make the final run to the ground rods, which are copper or copper plated steel, about eight to ten feet down, and about three feet from the building. Many buildings are built on a concrete slab which extends out a bit past the walls, and it is kinda tough to drive a ground rod through concrete ;-)

The "air points" (lighting rods) are spaced about 15' apart along the ridge line, with the two on the ends within 24" of the end of the roof. I also have a 35 foot communications tower (wireless internet), which is tied into the system and grounded as well.

All this stuff combined costs under $400, mostly because the aluminum conductor is only 76 cents a foot, whereas copper is $2.08 a foot, and I need 250 feet. (90 feet along the ridge, and the rest for the down-links along the edges of the ends of the building.) I already had the ground rods. There will be three ground rods, one at the NW corner, one at the SW corner, and one at the tower, which is about 15' south of the NE corner. I'm supposed to have a ground rod at every 100' of the building circumference, but the vendor says I'm OK with only one ground rod at the tower end. (I might add a fourth ground rod at the SE corner anyway.)

This gets built starting at ground level and working up. I don't want to put up the lighting rods (air points) first, get called away, and have them hit by lightning with no place for it to go!

(The house gets done next, all the valuable stuff is in the hangar. You know where my priorities are.)

There's a lightning arrestor in the cable from the antenna to the routers which I suspect will get blown to smithereens if there's a hit, but the internet guy owns it, not me, so he gets to replace it. There are two large surge supressors each with their own dedicated breaker, one at the main service entrance (200 amps) and another at the hangar service entrance, which is 70 amps. These cost about $70 each, the power company will rent you one for only $15 a month forever, like the phone company used to do with black dial phones in the bad old days (and I am showing my age with that one!).

The ground bar in the breaker panel has the green wire going out to yet another ground rod which was installed when the building was constructed. An electrician told me that the green wire was the most important wire in the system, it could save your life.

There are several sources for lighting system parts on the internet, Google is your friend. Prices vary widely, I found two good places but one of them had an attitude, so I wound up with a guy in Missouri named Jay, whose area code is 314. (I'm saying it this way because I can't put a URL here). He's helpful, his prices are right, and he knows what he's talking about. (The other guy does, too, but as I said, he has an attitude, and I prefer not to deal with him.)

Again, I feel that if I suddenly realize I need a lightning protection system RIGHT NOW, it is too late . . . $400 and a day's work is definitely worth it in peace of mind for me.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 
   / lightning rods #25  
My understanding is lightning being a negative charge is attracted to a positive.
This is a pretty good explanation:
https://earthscience.stackexchange.com › ...
Why does lightning strike from the ground-up? - Earth Science Stack ...

My old tobacco barn I connected tin roofs together with wire then ground rod, no lightning rods.
This large oak in one of my pastures has five cows buried under it. It was struck by lightning a few years ago.
Thomas Jefferson's Poplar Forest is close to here and all the oaks have lightning rods. The ground up high is so lightning will strike someplace else. Some people think it's so lightning hits them going to ground. With that massive voltage and current it would melt them.



20211001_141802.jpg
20211001_141845.jpg
 
   / lightning rods #26  
Where I built the previous house was hit by lightening (and burnt) which supposedly never strikes twice so I'm OK.
Or am I?
OK, I have a TV tower and I did a good job of grounding it plus my hydro grounding is all up to par with 2 9 ft rods completely driven in. (I used a impact hammer (Kango) c/w adaptor)
Fingers are always crossed if that helps.
As I was prepping to build this house I was able to examine the previous grounding setup.
Wow! The electron should have lost his license, he had simply slid the one ground rod underneath some ground cover that was an top of solid bedrock, like under 2-3 inches of ground cover.
Maybe effective when the soil was wet but certainly not on a dry day.
My hint was when I noticed the one wire melted about 1-2 ft from the foundation where the lighting jumped to ground. A weakling could have extracted that rod one handed!
 
   / lightning rods #27  
With that massive voltage and current it would melt them.

Actually, electricity mostly flows along the surface of the wires, which is why the conductors for lighting systems are multi-strand braided wires instead of one big wire. More surface area means more conductive capacity, which is why those wires don't melt. (This is even more pronounced at higher frequencies.)

While this doesn't seem to "make sense" because many people use a plumbing analogy for wiring (bigger pipe = more water), electricity works differently than water. The plumbing analogy is useful for a basic understanding, but as usual, the devil is in the details.


Lightning protection systems have been around for a couple of hundred years (!) and are pretty well understood. If the instructions say "Do X", I'm going to do X instead of trying to re-invent the wheel because if I get it wrong, it is MY stuff that gets burned to the ground.


Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 
   / lightning rods #28  
I'm near the east end of "lightning alley" in Florida, which runs from Tampa to Daytona. There are two buildings, a small house (standing steel roof, steel trusses and frame) and a 50 by 90 steel hangar 17 feet high at the ridgeline.

We've been here 11 years and haven't had a direct lighting strike yet BUT we've had some phones and computer stuff cooked by nearby strikes and we had a large pine tree perhaps 150 feet from our front door take a direct hit - and that was exciting! (The cat is still hiding under the bed . . . it's been a year.)

I've been poking around the internet looking for lightning protection since I regard lightning protection sort of like seat belts - you may never need them but if you do, now it is too late to fasten them.

Lot of information - first, lightning often strikes twice or more than twice. In fact, when there is a lightning strike, it creates a momentary channel of ionized air, and you can have multiple strikes through that channel in a matter of milliseconds. (Thunder is caused when that channel collapses.)

Second - lightning can be ground to air as well as air to ground, and it is just as destructive either way. Cloud to cloud lightning is harmless.

The ground rod(s) required by NEC (National Electric Code) and your building inspector is completely inadequate for lightning protection, and that isn't what it is for anyway.

Lightning can strike (or depart) from any structure no matter what it is made of. Stone, wood, metal, doesn't matter. It doesn't even have to be raining (although that helps by making the structure more conductive). In the middle ages, churches and cathedrals were often hit by lightning because they were the tallest things in town. People were advised to get out of the rain anywhere BUT the church or cathedral!


Now down to lightning protection on buildings we have . . .

Steel roof buildings need to use braided aluminum conductor wires (big, fat things, look like battery cables) because copper conductors on a galvanized steel roof will result in dissimilar metal corrosion. All the tie points, mount plates, air points and so forth need to be aluminum as well. If you don't want to drill holes in the building to mount the stuff, there is a construction adhesive (sells for $8 for a 10 ounce tube) which has a shear strength of 380 pounds per square inch (!) when it dries.

Down near the ground, we need to use a bimetallic connector, aluminum to copper, to make the final run to the ground rods, which are copper or copper plated steel, about eight to ten feet down, and about three feet from the building. Many buildings are built on a concrete slab which extends out a bit past the walls, and it is kinda tough to drive a ground rod through concrete ;-)

The "air points" (lighting rods) are spaced about 15' apart along the ridge line, with the two on the ends within 24" of the end of the roof. I also have a 35 foot communications tower (wireless internet), which is tied into the system and grounded as well.

All this stuff combined costs under $400, mostly because the aluminum conductor is only 76 cents a foot, whereas copper is $2.08 a foot, and I need 250 feet. (90 feet along the ridge, and the rest for the down-links along the edges of the ends of the building.) I already had the ground rods. There will be three ground rods, one at the NW corner, one at the SW corner, and one at the tower, which is about 15' south of the NE corner. I'm supposed to have a ground rod at every 100' of the building circumference, but the vendor says I'm OK with only one ground rod at the tower end. (I might add a fourth ground rod at the SE corner anyway.)

This gets built starting at ground level and working up. I don't want to put up the lighting rods (air points) first, get called away, and have them hit by lightning with no place for it to go!

(The house gets done next, all the valuable stuff is in the hangar. You know where my priorities are.)

There's a lightning arrestor in the cable from the antenna to the routers which I suspect will get blown to smithereens if there's a hit, but the internet guy owns it, not me, so he gets to replace it. There are two large surge supressors each with their own dedicated breaker, one at the main service entrance (200 amps) and another at the hangar service entrance, which is 70 amps. These cost about $70 each, the power company will rent you one for only $15 a month forever, like the phone company used to do with black dial phones in the bad old days (and I am showing my age with that one!).

The ground bar in the breaker panel has the green wire going out to yet another ground rod which was installed when the building was constructed. An electrician told me that the green wire was the most important wire in the system, it could save your life.

There are several sources for lighting system parts on the internet, Google is your friend. Prices vary widely, I found two good places but one of them had an attitude, so I wound up with a guy in Missouri named Jay, whose area code is 314. (I'm saying it this way because I can't put a URL here). He's helpful, his prices are right, and he knows what he's talking about. (The other guy does, too, but as I said, he has an attitude, and I prefer not to deal with him.)

Again, I feel that if I suddenly realize I need a lightning protection system RIGHT NOW, it is too late . . . $400 and a day's work is definitely worth it in peace of mind for me.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
Looks like you have a good grasp of things. Might I suggest you research bonding of ground rods. All ground rods should be bonded for your safety. This is reduce any voltage potential between the various rods.
 
   / lightning rods #29  
Looks like you have a good grasp of things. Might I suggest you research bonding of ground rods. All ground rods should be bonded for your safety. This is reduce any voltage potential between the various rods.
I will check that - I do have a big roll of #4 copper wire and I could thread that through the acorn clamps in addition to the copper braided down-wires. I'll have to dig a 6" deep trench all the way around the building (ugh) but I can pay someone to do that.

Thank you!

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida
 
   / lightning rods #30  
Works. Though with one I had a bugger of a time. Made a water drill out of a piece of metal conduit which got the job done.
Pretty off-topic but if you REALLY have a problem driving the rods in, just cut it off a foot below the top and only drive in one foot.
It's not like the inspector knows how much is below ground.

Obviously, don't do that, cuz your ground will be crap. But still this is what I noticed after spending an hour driving an 8' rod into our hard pack next to my solar array last fall. Inspector saw the top of the rod at ground level with the ground wire & clamp and was like "yup"

Alternatives to driving a whole 8' rod in is multiple shorter rods. I didn't pay attention to the code for that because I was able to get what I needed done (the right way - I may think up wrong ways that are enough to hoodwink an inspector but I don't follow through).
 

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