Lid too heavy for wife

/ Lid too heavy for wife #1  

woodlandfarms

Super Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
6,149
Location
Los Angeles / SW Washington
Tractor
PowerTrac 1850, Kubota RTV x900
Well, it has happened. My wife is having temporary hand issues and cannot lift the hood on the pt to fuel or service. I have not heard of any of you doing a mod but I have to ask if you have any ideas.

Carl
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #2  
I have a similar issue due to ligament damage in my wrists. I have thought of cutting a hole in the lid to expose the gas cap (on my PT 425 the tank is situated high against the lid top).

I assume you have a diesel storage tank with a pump so lifting a 5 gallon gas can and holding it up for a minute plus while it fills the PT gas tank is not an issue. I usually have to transfer fuel to a 2 gallon container to be able to handle refueling. Having a gasoline storage tank with a pump is another set of issues.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #3  
lift arm cylinder similar to the ones on mini-van tailgates, but getting the geometry correct to achieve 90 degree movement could be interesting, or maybe a 12vdc linear actuator some are rated to 500 lbs, your machine is all hydraulic use a hydraulic cylinder, possibility of an winch close to the fueling station
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #5  
Dear Carl,

Sorry to hear about your wife's hand.

Napa sells a whole range of gas lift arms of different weights and lengths (20-500lbs of lift). I'd put in two. You may want to add a latch to keep it down, because if you take too much of the weight off the engine cover, it may bounce open in use.

All the best,

Peter
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #6  
Maybe you could bolt on one or more heavy duty spring gate hinges to the lid somehow? Not sure about the geometry and if there would be issues... just a thought.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #7  
Maybe you could bolt on one or more heavy duty spring gate hinges to the lid somehow? Not sure about the geometry and if there would be issues... just a thought.

Mount a lift cyl on the lid at the right angle, and use the QA hose to power it up and down.

Mount it so if the engine will not start, you can remove a pin and lift it as you have been doing.

Could add some weight to the back of the lid for counter balance
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #8  
For simplicity sake, mount a 1.5 inch inside diameter pipe 12" long vertically, but angled back about 10 degrees on the rear side of the engine compartment. Then get her a 4' long piece of 1" outside diameter pipe. Slip the long pipe in the short pipe and you got a 4' lever for her to pull the lid back. You could also mount a couple short sections along the side to slip it onto for storage and pin it in.

Or, you could get a 12v linear actuator from under the power seat of a 2000 Chevy Impala from a junk yard and mount that inside the engine compartment with some helper springs.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife
  • Thread Starter
#9  
So here is what I kinda know... the lid is VERY heavy... I figure you are lifting around 60 to 80lbs and you are trying to get it over your head. The lid on the 1850 is big, and it houses a HUGE radiator that is filled with oil. Plus the steal that makes it up.

The actuator looks interesting but so far I see only 100lb max.

I have found a website with the type that go in cars and you can get up to 250lbs.... Actually you can get higher, but they are very short (Does this matter?)

What I am getting at is that I am thinking this is a lot of weight, but maybe I am missing the physics here.

So.... Here is a design question......... Lets say I am looking at the PT from the drivers side. The lid lifts like this \. So when I put in my cylinder, does it go in like \ or like /.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #10  
Where do you store it? Inside? Just mount a little come along on it from a beam or ceiling joist and just open it up that way until her hands start to feel better. Shouldn't be to difficult for her to use. Shoot you can even mount a counter weight on the come along so all she has to do is just a slight tug on it and it will open. This was just a thought to make it much simpler.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #11  
So here is what I kinda know... the lid is VERY heavy... I figure you are lifting around 60 to 80lbs and you are trying to get it over your head. The lid on the 1850 is big, and it houses a HUGE radiator that is filled with oil. Plus the steal that makes it up.

The actuator looks interesting but so far I see only 100lb max.

I have found a website with the type that go in cars and you can get up to 250lbs.... Actually you can get higher, but they are very short (Does this matter?)

What I am getting at is that I am thinking this is a lot of weight, but maybe I am missing the physics here.

So.... Here is a design question......... Lets say I am looking at the PT from the drivers side. The lid lifts like this \. So when I put in my cylinder, does it go in like \ or like /.


Here is a linear actuator at 500 lbs.

Surplus Center - 12.04" STROKE 500 LBS 12 VDC LINEAR ACTUATOR

Mount it in the direction the lid is raising.

A hyd cyl would be less expensive. Could even be an SA cyl. Power up gravity down.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Cool, yeah, we are considering that as a short term option. Something that she can lift in the barn

JJ, yeah, a cylinder is cheaper, but two issues, first is true cost. To plumb, make hoses and create a control will beat the cost of the Actuator. 2nd is real estate it is kinda tight in the engine compartment... But, still a viable idea here.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #13  
stop in at a salvage/junkyard and scope out the lift mechanism on a ''cab-over'' style truck (isuzu comes to mind) the cabs are heavy but require very little effort to lift and have a locking mechanism to prevent accidental closing during servicing
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #14  
Dear Carl,

The lid still opens like this __|. You don't want it to go past 90 degrees, or you would be lifting some of the dead weight of the cover, plus the force of the struts. Each cylinder comes with a closed length and an open length, and those will set where they need to be mounted on your tub and engine cover. You want the cylinders position so that when the cover is closed, they are directing their expansion (i.e. lift) upward. If the cylinder is not vertical when closed, you have to increase the lift numbers below by the dividing the sine of the angle into the numbers below. I have a worked example below that assumes the cylinder lifts straight up when closed.

I'll try to work an example on how to figure out the strut location and strength. On the weight side, if we assume that the engine cover weighs XXlbs, and has a center of mass some distance from the hinge Y. For simplicity sake, if the mass is uniformly distributed (so Y is half the length L), then if you are lifting the cover from the far point (L), you will need to lift Y/L of XX, i.e. 50%, since half the weight is in your hand and half at the hinge. If you want to offset all of weight, you would need a lift cylinder of XX/2, if it were lifting from the far point (L). As you move the lift point closer to the hinge, the lift force goes up, by the ratio of the distance between the lift point and the hinge. If you were to lift at the center point, I think that the the lift force would be XX * (Y+Y/2)/L, or XX*3/4. If the weight is unequally distributed the math is a little more complicated, but I think that this will work as a first pass, since you aren't trying to offset all of the weight anyway.

This is why you are finding short, but strong ones for cars; they are used to lift hatchbacks from very close to hinge, and thus have to lift nearly all of the weight of the hatchback.

If you assume that the current dead lift on the cover is 100lbs, then by the math above, it would estimate that the cover would weigh 200lbs in total. So a pair of lift springs about a quarter of the way out from the hinge would need to lift a combined 7/8ths of the weight, or 175lbs, or two struts of 87.5lbs. You have lots of choices in that weight range. If you aren't adding a latch, you will need to offset less than 100% of the weight to keep it from bouncing open.

If you have a shell on your pickup, you can see how how the struts offset the weight of the rear window, and how the geometry works out.

If you need only a temporary fix, parking it under a tree, and using a rope and pulley might be simpler...

I think that this math is correct, but feel free to chime in, if I have missed something.

All the best,

Peter

So here is what I kinda know... the lid is VERY heavy... I figure you are lifting around 60 to 80lbs and you are trying to get it over your head. The lid on the 1850 is big, and it houses a HUGE radiator that is filled with oil. Plus the steal that makes it up.

The actuator looks interesting but so far I see only 100lb max.

I have found a website with the type that go in cars and you can get up to 250lbs.... Actually you can get higher, but they are very short (Does this matter?)

What I am getting at is that I am thinking this is a lot of weight, but maybe I am missing the physics here.

So.... Here is a design question......... Lets say I am looking at the PT from the drivers side. The lid lifts like this \. So when I put in my cylinder, does it go in like \ or like /.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #15  
If it were me, I would visit a junk yard, remove the two gas trunk cylinders and mounting hardware from the trunk of a Chevy Impala and try those in my PT. They are $30.00 new at Autozone, so I would think you could easily get two with mounting hardware for less than that at a junk yard.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #16  
Hey, get a second wife. Together the two should be able to lift it.:)
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Finally someone with an amazingly good idea...... NOOO WAITTTTT This one is already a nightmare.... A really bad idea bob ;-)
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I posted this in another section of the forum, but my wife mowed over a bunny family, there were two survivors but one ended up immediatly in the jaws of the dog.. Not sure my wife will ever mow again so now no reason to worry about the lid.
 
/ Lid too heavy for wife #19  
I have used the chain fall on my rolling bridge crane to lift the engine cover up and hold it up when i have the tractor parked too close to something to allow it to go all of the way back.

Ken
 

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