License to Operate

[blackmajicwoman]

I recently heard that in order to use your FEL or BH on other than your own private property in MA, you need to have a Class 2B Hoist license and be insured up to $400,000 liability. Do any of you fellow taxachussians have any info on this?

I also hear if it is under 25hp, less than 10ft BH reach, less than 1/4 CY FEL cap and less than 500# lift capacity, you are excempt from the license (only). Is any of this true.

If so, how difficult is it to get a license and is prior experience with a Class 2B employee/er required. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[PAB_OH]

Sorry, doesn't surprise me.

I don't know anything about it but it really does sound like something they would do in that region of the country. Good luck and I hope you don't really have to jump through hoops to own a tractor and help a friend out if needed.

 

[LarryRB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I recently heard that in order to use your FEL or BH on other than your own private property in MA, you need to have a Class 2B Hoist license and be insured up to $400,000 liability. Do any of you fellow taxachussians have any info on this?
. )</font>

This is nothing new. The hydraulic license requirement and insurance has been around 35 years or so,, IF you are doing commercial work on properties and it includes engineer planning (ie) septic system, you need the license. If the neighbor wants you to dig a fish pond, I am not aware of any law requiring a license. I have had a "unlimited" license in Mass for 25 years and only been carded when doing highway work.

 

[MadDog]

I sure hope you heard wrong, because I have been doing favors for my neighbors with my FEL and/or BH for about two years now.

My insurance agent says (and I suppose, as a lawyer, I shouldn't need to be told this by an insurance agent /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) that I ought to have neighbors sign a release before I do anything on their property, since my homeowners liability coverage won't cover that.

I am in the process of getting "Inland Marine" coverage to cover damage to tractor and attachments off premises. My agent told me that liability coverage would run about $1000/yr. That's a lot to pay for the privilege of doing favors for folks. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

License?? INSURANCE??? Say it ain't so.

 

[Ronzonie]

I don't know about the insurance part,but if I remember correctly you do need a hoisters license if your machine can lift 500 lbs. or over 5 feet or more in the air.The only ones I know of that do not need a license are farmers.

 

[LarryRB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I sure hope you heard wrong, because I have been doing favors for my neighbors with my FEL and/or BH for about two years now.)</font>
As I stated, I have had an unlimited hoisters license 25 years or so... If doing commercial work, for hire, and especially if engineer plans are involved, you need the license.,,, Helping the neighbor is not the same thing.. If you are at the neighbors and are getting paid, I am not sure how this would be taken. Like anything else in New England area, one cop follows to the letter of the law and the other 50 modify it to their liking. I have been carded many times, and it was always on a municipal related job site. I have never once, been asked about licenses on private property, "even when doing a commercial and paid job on same property"...

 

[JoeR]

Wow! Talk about crazy laws... I have always heard when the Government passes a law for "your" safety, it is nothing more than a means to gain control. So, I guess this license is for your safety and other people too. Don't need OSHA when MA has laws to protect you? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[LarryRB]

and ironically, Mass is a non OSHA state, go figure.

 

[MadDog]

Fortunately (for me as well as them, in this instance) my neighbors aren't dumb enough to pay me and I'm not dumb enough to ask to be paid. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On the insurance front, I now have a quote for "Inland Marine" property damage coverage on my equpment of $250/yr for $38k coverage BUT with a $1k deductible. This makes the coverage meaningless on all the less expensive attachments, but it is still needed for off-premises protection for the tractor, FEL, BH, and chipper/shredder. I can't save anything by not covering the other attachments because the $250 is claimed to be a "minimum" premium.

Go figure......

BTW, does dealing with insurance companies ever tick you folks off a bit? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I don't mind the slick language and all the exclusions, but I do mind the attitude of an insurance company that acts like it is doing me a favor by taking my premium $$. I thought that we were the customers and that the insurance companies lived on our collective business. You'd never know it dealing with 'em.

If I treated my clients like they were pieces of s**t, they'd find someone who didn't and the "market" would retire me. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Then I suppose I could start a landscaping business. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MadReferee]

MD,

Looks like you got your policy for about 1/2 of what I paid per $1000 but I got $250 deductible. Mine is with Peerless. Also my agent also has a tractor and recommended this company. The nice thing about the commercial inland marine policies is all the 'extra" stuff that is covered. For example my policy covers extracting the tractor from the back 40 after an accident even if it requires a D9 to bulldoze a road for the wrecker. It also covers fuel spill cleanup if I flip near a stream or brook.

I'll leave the lawyer jokes for later. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[LarryRB]

Mad dog and referree
I quoted a figure several weeks back and just looked it up and was wrong,, I quoted 280 for full commercial coverage, no deductable, and it is in fact 380. or one dollar per thousand,,., The full commercial coverage does cover a lot of extra,s such as referree mentioned... If you spill fuel from a roll over accident, they will cover that clean up also... I no longer do commercial work with my machine or others, so I just keep the commercial inland for myself and this farm... I do re-new the hoisters license simply because there are very few issued with "unlimted use".. In reality, it is limited as I can't run the last steam powered shovel in Boston proper and can't run a crane over 115 ft in heighth... This should pretty much cover anything mentioned on this net, don't you think?

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm a MA resident and to tell you the truth, even though I never heard of this law I kinda like it. This ain't all farm country here boys. We have gas lines and underground utilities running every which way. I like the idea that someone operating a backhoe has at least passed some basic safe operating test and has a bit of insurance before upending Mother Earth in my neighborhood. I can see how it doesn't make sense to make it difficult for one farmer to help another farmer however.

 

[JoeR]

Personally, I think people should need a license to operate a post hole digger. My neighbors always seem to find the phone lines and cable TV coax. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (I have done that too) Then the phone and cable company usually repair it for free. Here in FL, if a BH operator hits a utlitity line then he pays for the repair. The cost of the repair usually creates more caution than a license to operate. Then again, we all need a license to drive a car, and we all have seen the idiots on the road. In my opinion the license is a form of revenue. I could just about say any license is a form of revenue. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[blackmajicwoman]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I guess what I am hearing from most of you is that the few favors I do for some of my neighbors, family, and friends, I do not need any license, nor require insurance.

One other question I have is how many of you New Englanders have utilized Dig Safe for exavation projects, which seems to be required by law. I have laid a few under ground utilities for electricians by hand and have only called the local utility companies directly. The again, we are only talking about a 6" wide x 18" deep trench dug by hand

 

[MadDog]

I agree with what everyone has said about digging. I don't dig on MY land, not to speak of anyone else's without checking with DIG SAFE.

But I don't think that for someone operating a CUT and the kinds of FEL and BH that you can run off of one, that the state ought to require a license for you to be allowed to use it.

I'm assuming (and perhaps without justification) that anyone who spends the money to purchase a CUT, FEL and/or BH would, at least for the protection of his investment, if not for the safety of others, take the trouble to learn how to use it.

When I was new to all this, before I bought my tractor, I bought (and read) a pretty lengthy and good book aimed at commercial equipment operators on excavating techniques for BH and FEL. It was pretty useful and most of it was applicable to CUT equipment. The little that I knew, before I began to accumulate some experience, came either from that book or this site.

 

[blackmajicwoman]

MD,

Thanks for the info. One last request, what's the name of the book you are referencing. I wouldn't mind acquiring such a book. Thanks for your help.

BMW

 

[MadDog]

Sure, BMW. I'll dig it out over the weekend and post the title on Monday, if not before.

 

[LarryRB]

I tried sending you several PM's however they are not going through, You must have receive PM's turned off