Liability waiver

[Geoscouter]

While I have been reading the TBN forums for a couple of years this is my first post. This suburban boy has learned a lot from the people who contribute to this forum. Thanks for the education!

I acquired my country property about 2 years ago. It had recently been logged and has a number of piles of short logs left over from the logging in a couple of landing sites the loggers used to size and grade the logs prior to loading onto trucks for shipment to the sawmill. I've been wanting to get rid of these unsightly piles but other chores have kept me from that task. I've considered burning them but we're talking 18-36" diameter logs (mix of hardwoods and pine) up to 6 feet in length in piles six feet high and upto 20 feet around. Once lit, these piles would burn for days and I can only be around for the weekends.

The other day my brother-in-law called and said he had a co-worker who lives near the property and heats his home with wood. I called this guy and he is interested in coming out to the property to cut up the logs for use in heating his home. I'm thinking this is a good idea as it gets rid of the piles that I have not had time to get to and helps this guy heat his house.

My concern is if I let this guy come out to the property to cut and haul this wood away (for free) and he gets hurt doing it am I putting myself at risk of a lawsuit. Can I reduce the chance of that happening by having him sign some kind of document that essentially states that he can not sue me if he gets hurt on the property? If so, is there some standard form that is available (without paying for legal fees) to cover this? Or is this something that an insurance policy would cover?

I figured that this would be a situation that others here have had to deal with. I would appreaciate any feedback.

 

[YanmarFever]

I think a waiver would work, be sure to have a witness sign too. If you have an attorney friend run it by them first.
or call legal aid & ask
just my opinion,of course

 

[tawilson]

Maybe you can check on this for your area. New York has a fair access law. Very briefly, it protects you from lawsuits from people using your property if your property is not used for a business. If you charged him for the wood, you wouldn't be protected. I've talked with my lawyer about liability releases for my campground property, and his opinion was I can still be sued, it just gives them one more hurdle to jump through, so it wouldn't hurt.

 

[RonR]

I think I'd write up a contract for him to remove the wood from your property between the dates x and y. He will charge you $1 for the removal of the wood, plus he keeps the wood he removes. I would also specify by flags or something so it is absolutely clear which wood he is to take.

Should also state that he assumes any and all liability resulting from his removal of the wood and access to your property, and any personal injury to anyone while he is in the process of fulfilling this contract.

Then I'd run it by a lawyer to make sure you are protected.

ron (not a lawyer, but nervous to have someone working on my property without something in writing)

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've been told by a fairly reliable person that a waiver isn't worth much more than the paper it's written on. It serves only as a deterrent, but if someone gets hurt, and they decide to haul you into court, you still have problems.

From what I was told, if they can (or THINK they can) prove some neglegence on your part, no waiver is enough.

 

[Richard]

Don't be surprised at how short your fire (might) last. We had what I interpret to be an exact situation. I have attached a pic of the fire. What it doesn't show is the fire BEHIND me of similar size. (yes, they were big). I burned them both simultaneously.

If you can be out there for the weekend and start it on Friday, it'll be 90% gone (in my opinion) by mid Saturday although it might smolder for a week beyond... The fire you see in the picture was started on a Friday after an ENTIRE day of light rain.

I got my fire permit, cell phone, backhoe (visible in upper picture in background for scale) and a cooler with a couple cokes and had at it.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bmac]

When my building site was cleared, we had a similarly sized brush pile. Our excavator guy dug a huge pit and pushed the wood pile into the hole and burned it there. The advantage of doing it this way is that it burns HOT, fast and completely. Something to consider.

 

[Phils]

As has been said, a signed waiver is only another tool for your defense. Nothing can stop a lawsuit if minds are 'made up'. Although I'm not a lawyer, I also like the $1 idea making it a business deal with most of the responsibility on him.

I just wanted to mention that it usually isn't typical where that guy would try and sue you, signed waiver or not. What happens more often (but still not frequently) is that guy's heirs, should he be mortally injured while cutting the wood (or falling into an uncovered mineshaft on your property, etc.) would file a lawsuit no matter what you had him sign.

And yes, it can be an insurance thing provided you have liability insurance on that land. At least here in CA you can easily "extend" liability from your homeowners insurance to that vacant land ($20 - no big deal). Most states have similar laws/rules.

Phil

 

[meledward23]

Hmmm let me put it to you this way. I have spent many days in court in the last few years in persuit of things owed to me by people who decided they dont want to pay. I have learned alot about the small court system.

To quote the judge "you need to get a lawyer to write a contract".... etc... so many times my ears were rinigng. And that is from listening to other peoples cases. You know the ones that represent themselves.

And when it dcame to my cases it became painfully obvious my wife's (I married into her business) contracts and waivers were useless for the most part. If you dont sit down with an attorney and have them draw up a general and specific form to address your situation, from what I have seen, most pre made off the net waivers and such are next to useless.

Just my two cents.