Legal Carry ???

[RollTideRam]

I keep a pistol in my truck. I have done this for many years and have a permit from Alabama to do it legally. We got an email at work a few weeks ago stating my companies policy on alcohol, drugs and firearms. We are not to have any of these on company property and they were going to start a random search. From trucks coming in, to lockers and employee parking. It mentioned using our guard or bringing in local police with a dog. I'm not aware of any problems that have come up recently for them to send this to us. Well there are the few that gather around after our shift and have a couple beers, but they have done that the thirteen years I have worked at the plant. I drive 20 miles at 5:00 a.m. and I feel safer with my gun. What is a man to do? JC

 

[the_sandman_454]

What does your state law say on the matter (restrictions of what you may or may not have in your vehicle on 'public' or 'private' property)? Some states treat your automobile as essentially an extension of your home and disallow people from prohibiting things.

Also, perhaps one of the key questions is "is the parking lot in a secured, access controlled area or is there no security on the parking lot?" I suspect that may make a difference some places. I think it might also come down to the private property issue, in that your vehicle may be considered private, just like your home.

Of course the obvious downside to the issue is they probably can fire you. You may be able to sue them and recover something, or perhaps get hired back. You have to weigh your ability to protect yourself with your ability to make a living if you should happen to get caught.

 

[YanmarFever]

Dont park on their property, park out on the public street, that way they cant say anything. (if possible) and walking isnt to far away from the door.

However you never want to step on THEIR property while packing, and get an alarm for your vehicle too.

 

[RonMar]

You have a concealed permit that allows you to carry your loaded firearm in your vehicle? I have never seen one of those. All I have seen required the firearm to be ON your person. You can travel in a vehicle, but the gun has to be on your person while doing so. A loaded gun stored in your vehicle(within reach I assume) and not on your person was contrary to the stipulations of the permit regs I have read, and a concealed weapons violation even if you have a permit...

I have not really followed how some of the court cases have come out, but I know the issue of conflicting private property rights, both for the employers parking lot and the employees vehicle have been or are being brought to court. The initial interpretation that I saw is that basically it is their property and you neither have to park on it nor work on it.

It has been a long time since I had a concealed permit, but in the last state I had one, I recall the stipulations for concealed carry prohibit carry in national parks, large crowded areas/gatherings, places where alcohol is served and any private property that prohibits such practice.

The issue that has been left hanging and why this is being challenged in court, is that if they deny your right to carry, or leave your gun in your vehicle(for protection to-from work), how are they guaranteeing your safety, particularly while traveling to-from work? Also if a person who didn't follow the rules was to be so inclined, how difficult would it be to walk into your place of work and start shooting? Virginia tech was a no gun zone, that guaranteed a nut case an undefended shooting gallery. I havn't heard of any lawsuits from students who were denied the right of self protection yet, but I would not be surprised by one. What most don't realize, or the people who dream up these restrictions will willingly admit, is that permitted carriers are not a threat(look at the documented crime rate amongst permitted carriers). They are typically responsible citizens who follow the rules, hence the permit!

There may be something more about these type cases on NRA's website.

 

[RoyJackson]

See your company handbook. Unless it specifically includes your vehicle, you should be OK. If the policy does include personal vehicles in the parking lot, you may have to park off site.
Any idea what initiated this change? It sounds more like a drug problem then anything else. Or, the company hired a new HR type that wants to show his/her stuff.
I have had a gun (in my car) at some companies...depends on the policy. I'm not sure if dogs can sniff out firearms or ammo...and, if so, who's to say the scent wasn't from a weekend trip to the rifle range.

 

[SnowRidge]

As carry permit programs have expanded around the country, and more and more people become aware of them, businesses seem to feel the need to have a policy on carrying on their premises. It seems like most prohibit it. I suspect it just may be your turn to get caught up in it.

Random searches by the local police sounds like a non-starter to me. What are you, children at school? I really don't think LE would get involved. There are all sorts of consitutional issues with the government searching vehicles without probable cause.

Unfortunately, I don't think you have any shot at stopping random searches by the company itself, short of unionizing. I assume you don't have a union.

You could contact the NRA. I have read about a few campaigns to stop the no firearms on our premises policies. They have mostly been aimed at retailers. I'm not sure if any of them have been successful.

RonMar: Every state's firearm laws are different, and it seems like they are always changing. When I make a trip, I get on the NRA's web site and check the law for every state I will be passing through. No two are the same.

 

[Soundguy]

Ron.. while your states laws may preclude it.. other states may not. in florida, the law says 'on or -about- your person'. In florida it is also required ( advised ) to hand your CCW to the police officer when you hand him your drivers license... if he's called your tag in already.. he will know you have a CCW anyway. The police officer than has the authority to secure the weapon during the stop, if he wishes.. however the 2 times I've been stopped in the last decade ( tail lamp out - no ticket either time ), the officer asked where the gun was, and didn't otherwise seem concerned about it.

Interestingly enough, florida also just had a big go around between ccw holders and private property rights lobby... for now private property rights seem to trump most others, .. as far as i know.. if you park on PP and the PP owner disalows firearms.. you can't have your CCW in the car with you. That's a 'bad' interpretation of the law IMHO.. as the CCW holder will essentially be disarmed for the entire trip from home to work, to home. A CCW for self defense doesn't do yuo much good tucked away at your house while you get mugged at the jiffy store late one night while getting gas on the way home from your dem-socio-****-run-job that won't let you have a means to defend yourself.

Soundguy

You have a concealed permit that allows you to carry your loaded firearm in your vehicle? I have never seen one of those. All I have seen required the firearm to be ON your person. You can travel in a vehicle, but the gun has to be on your person while doing so. A loaded gun stored in your vehicle(within reach I assume) and not on your person was contrary to the stipulations of the permit regs I have read, and a concealed weapons violation even if you have a permit...

I have not really followed how some of the court cases have come out, but I know the issue of conflicting private property rights, both for the employers parking lot and the employees vehicle have been or are being brought to court. The initial interpretation that I saw is that basically it is their property and you neither have to park on it nor work on it.

It has been a long time since I had a concealed permit, but in the last state I had one, I recall the stipulations for concealed carry prohibit carry in national parks, large crowded areas/gatherings, places where alcohol is served and any private property that prohibits such practice.

The issue that has been left hanging and why this is being challenged in court, is that if they deny your right to carry, or leave your gun in your vehicle(for protection to-from work), how are they guaranteeing your safety, particularly while traveling to-from work? Also if a person who didn't follow the rules was to be so inclined, how difficult would it be to walk into your place of work and start shooting? Virginia tech was a no gun zone, that guaranteed a nut case an undefended shooting gallery. I havn't heard of any lawsuits from students who were denied the right of self protection yet, but I would not be surprised by one. What most don't realize, or the people who dream up these restrictions will willingly admit, is that permitted carriers are not a threat(look at the documented crime rate amongst permitted carriers). They are typically responsible citizens who follow the rules, hence the permit!

There may be something more about these type cases on NRA's website.

 

[Tractors4u]

You have a concealed permit that allows you to carry your loaded firearm in your vehicle? I have never seen one of those. All I have seen required the firearm to be ON your person. You can travel in a vehicle, but the gun has to be on your person while doing so. A loaded gun stored in your vehicle(within reach I assume) and not on your person was contrary to the stipulations of the permit regs I have read, and a concealed weapons violation even if you have a permit...

My State of Alabama Pistol License issued by the Limestone County Sherrif's Department says,

The following applicant has been issued this license to CARRY A PISTOL CONCEALED ON THE PERSON OR CONCEALED WITHIN A MOTOR VEHICLE as authorized by Title 13A-11-70 through 84, Code of Alabama.

 

[jimg]

As was mentioned above your state may be progressive enough to extend your right to carry so employers may not have the latitude they think they have. That is your vehicle is an extension of yourself or property. Im not sure what recourse you have though if a dog is used and it indicates your vehicle has a 'problem'. Im sure at that point private property or not theyll come up w/ some hairbrained ruling that says they can search. OTOH I dont see how they can compel you to allow a search of your vehicle w/o consent. I suppose they could make it a term of employment and fire you for noncompliance. I would stongly recommend that you contact the NRA or state gun rights organization for further help. Theyll know, esp the locals, what youll be able to do. I certainly wouldnt let this go unchallenged.

 

[dmccarty]

I suppose they could make it a term of employment and fire you for noncompliance.

Bing! Bing! Bing! You have the right answer. If he does not allow the search they will simply fire him. If security wants to search my briefcase when I leave one of my jobs my choice is to let them search or loose the job.

Dogs can sniff and find firearms. I would be surprised though that a law enforcement agency would step into this situation unless there was a very good reason. I suppose the company could hire a dog and handler.

One day a CCW holder will be killed because they where not allowed to carry on private property. I would think that the lawsuit against the owner of the property will be won and this nonsense will stop. Seems reasonable that if you stop some one from legally carrying then you have assumed responsibility for their safety. But the courts and maybe the legislatures will decide.

Later,
Dan