Lead paint warning

   / Lead paint warning #1  

Kays Supply

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
1,106
Location
Southern Illinois
Tractor
Iseki TA 207
I just finished a lead paint requirement class. It was more than I had expected. Just giving all contractors the heads up. This is going to be haunting us soon and for a long time. I am going to try to avoid any contact with homes built before 1978. The hoops you have to go through and the red tape makes it more than I want to deal with. The liability is incredible. The fines are in the 10s of thousands. Get prepaired, it is going to be a rough ride.
 
   / Lead paint warning #2  
I plead ignorance on this topic. Fines for doing what?
 
   / Lead paint warning #3  
I plead ignorance on this topic. Fines for doing what?

Google US EPA RRP (renovate,repair,paint).
To become certified you have to take an 8 hour class and pass a test about "lead safe" work practices. Prices for the class vary. The cheapest I've seen is $150 but I heard they focused mostly on windows. The class I took was $259 (plus the lost income for the day). In addition to the certification, companies need to buy a $300 license from the EPA, buy a special hepa vac (which are now in short supply),follow very specific work procedures,and keep detailed work records.

Before the RRP rules took effect the labor costs for a typical vinyl window replacement would run $150 in my area. The guys doing window replacements when lead paint is present are now having to charge upwards of $400 per window!

Got a house with peeling paint you want to have sided? Your contractor will have to vacuum up the paint chips from the ground!

The RRP rules outline very specific work procedures. It's obvious whoever wrote the rules has absolutely no construction experience.......Example: When replacing a window that has lead paint plastic has to be put down to cover the ground, and it has to be taped to the foundation. Pretty hard to do under perfect circumstances and impossible if its rained or snowed.

There are proposed changes in the works that will expand the requirements to commercial buildings and tighten the requirements for outside work. One of the proposed changes includes vertical barriers. A few nights ago I read one proposed change that outlined work procedures for surfaces that DO NOT contain lead!!!! They are also considering requiring 3rd party exit testing. Basically requiring a 3rd party to test cleaning wipes for lead levels.

There ARE legitimate health concerns with lead paint dust, but, and that's a big BUT, blood lead levels in the group in which these regs are supposed to help have decreased 84% since the early 80's and the problems they cite for creating the regs have remained (and even increased). Perhaps there are other factors that lead to the problems.

There are several things that make these rules bad for contractors.

Obviously the rules will drive prices up.

They have a snitch line where homeowners can report their contractors for not following the rules. In reality its competing contractors that are doing the snitching. Fines are $37,500 per violation per day. Violations can be anything from not having required documents on the jobsite, not following specified procedures, to not keeping required records. The person doing the snitching receives a commission on any fines that are collected.
When I took my certification class the instructor talked about one contractor from his area that had 17 complaints on the snitch line in one week!

Workers will be more prone to increased blood lead levels because of working in containment areas. If workers blood lead levels exceed a certain amount the employer has to keep them on the payroll for 18 months even though they won't be allowed to work on projects that contain lead paint. Look for workers comp rates to increase.

In addition to the increased liability with worker's the new regs will increase our liability with home owners.

Guess who is taking the certification classes. Carpenters, electricians, plumbers, painters...........and LAWYERS!!!!!!!!

The original rules provided an opt out clause where home owners could opt to allow contractors to not follow the rules if certain criteria were met. The Sierra Club sued the EPA. As part of the settlement the EPA dropped the opt out clause.

I got the certification but I haven't bought the license. For now I'm turning down work if the customer's house tests positive for lead paint. Depending on how the rules change I may opt to not work on any pre 1978 housing whether there's lead pain or not.

There are still lots of contractors that don't know about the new rules. These rules apply to ALL contractors that work on pre 1978 houses that contain lead paint ANYWHERE in the USA. Oh yeah, one of the proposed changes is to include post 1978 housing!
 
   / Lead paint warning #4  
It's a full employment act for lawyers...

Sorry, but many areas have older homes and some will just walk away and add to inventory of vacant homes...

Look for lenders to become more involved too...
 
   / Lead paint warning
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Pops has it pretty staight. I am not getting a lisc yet either. I plan to get some test kits and RUN from any job that turns pink. I did learn some things about how I work lead for flashings and shower pans. The pure lead concentration is really scary. The amount needed to do permanent damage is so small it is hard to believe. But when the second most common side effect of lead poisoning in adults is loss of sex drive he got my attention , because the first symtom is high blood pressure. I just turn up with high blood pressure this year. I have very low cholesterol . ?????
 
   / Lead paint warning #6  
Does this mean we should be careful of Chinese built homes?
 
   / Lead paint warning #7  
. I just turn up with high blood pressure this year. I have very low cholesterol . ?????

You are lucky, you take one pill instead of two. :D Enjoy a cremestick for me. :thumbsup:
Dave.
 
   / Lead paint warning #8  
It is amazing how many old practices are now known to be dangerous.

Arsenic used to be used as a green pigment in paint, as well as in wallpaper adhesives - be very careful if you ever remove very old wallpaper!!

We had to have the cellar in our last house decontaminated as the insulation around the heating pipes was asbestos-based.

And in this house I had to wear full respirators to remove some plaster that contained horsehair as it was an anthrax risk (albeit low).

J
 
   / Lead paint warning #9  
It is amazing how many old practices are now known to be dangerous.

Arsenic used to be used as a green pigment in paint, as well as in wallpaper adhesives - be very careful if you ever remove very old wallpaper!!

We had to have the cellar in our last house decontaminated as the insulation around the heating pipes was asbestos-based.

And in this house I had to wear full respirators to remove some plaster that contained horsehair as it was an anthrax risk (albeit low).

J

No doubt lead paint is bad stuff but I don't think the new regs will have much if any effect on the IQ's and behavior problems in inner city non-Hispanic black children. That's the group the EPA is targeting to help with these rules. The use of leaded gasoline was phased out in most areas in the early 1980's. That was supposed to take care of the low IQ and violence problems. I read on the EPA website that blood lead levels in the target group have dropped 84% since the early 80's. It's clear to me there are other factors that are contributing to some of the problems the EPA is looking to fix. The EPA has been talking about their target group's problems for 30 years. Now they are saying that more affluent people are being affected by lead paint because the more affluent people are renovating older homes. They cite the growing number of renovation programs on TV as their proof. There were allot of complaints in the training class I took about bureaucrats with no practical knowledge writing the work procedures we must follow. The instructors said it was worse than we thought.....the work procedures weren't written by the bureaucrats, they were written by college interns!

I knew that arsenic had been used in paint but I wasn't aware it was used in wallpaper paste.
We built a house for a guy that was in the asbestos abatement business. He had made a fortune removing asbestos from schools. I was shocked to find out the work procedures required for asbestos abatement in public buildings weren't required in when removing asbestos from houses!
I've torn out tons of plaster that had horse or pig hair in it. The Anthrax threat is one I'd never heard of.
 
   / Lead paint warning #10  
Very interesting thread.....

How do you test for lead or can a homeowner do it themselves:confused:
 

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