Large Garage Shop design and cost

[Gary Fowler]

After all the research, I ultimately decided to build a wood frame since the price of steel had risen so high in the 2 years I was waiting before building. I was looking at a 30x40 but ended up with a 30x52 overall width with 30X30 main concrete slab and a 12x8 side slab for a bathroom and file storage on one side. It will have 12' wide open sides for equipment storage. The interior is sealed with 3/8 plywood and fully insulated including the 14 foot and 10 foot wide doors. The bathroom has a 36" wide entrance from outside, plus entrance from the shop area. I think it will serve my purposes of storage of my boat and tractor plus lawn tractor. I may later on wall in the one side on the north if I feel the winter rain is getting in too much, but for now I wanted it open for better access since this will be for bush hog, box blade and disc storage.
I hope the photo attachment works as I have never tried to attach a photo. I decided to use an 8" block wall around the perimeter so I could water hose out the floor without wetting the walls too much and also give me a little more height on the ceiling. The walls are 9' with the 8" additional lift from the CMU block.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Additional photos of start of shop/barn

 

[mjncad]

Skidoo:

I've been getting rough estimates for a 40' x 60' x 16' (eave height) metal building to see if we can afford to put one up this year or not. With the housing and stock market crashes, our future house plans will probably be placed on hold for the foreseeable future.

I used www.steelbuilding.com as a baseline for just the building materials. The quoted price for a building with 3:12 roof pitch, 30PSF snow load, 90MPH wind gust, (2) 12'x12' roll-up doors, (1) man-door, (2) 4'x3' windows for the office area, 4" wall & 6" roof insulation, gutters came $37,900+/-. This does not include freight, foundation, erection, etc.

A local dealer near the lot we want to build on sells CECO, and a similar; but not exact building came in at $36,500 for the building, $11,300 for erection, $16,800 for the foundation, and $850 for foundation design. The total was $63,450 not counting other options.

Another local guy wants $71,700 to supply and erect. This does NOT include foundation design and construction. He's out of the running.

I need to bug a third local guy for his rough estimate.

As you do your metal building research, you'll find that CECO, www.steelbuilding.com and other building manufactures and component suppliers are owned by a company called NCI or NBI...I don't recall which.

I have a ton of links for building manufacturers. PM me if interested.

 

[exiled]

I know that a pole barn construction may be the least expensive, but I am leaning away from that. So, aside from that, what would be the most practical style? Metal frame, stick frame and metal siding, all wood, straight rectangle style, barn style with a center loft, etc?

These are tuff questions. Its what you prefure I'm afraid. If money is no object then heck go for the steel.
My 40'x85' is a pole barn. The poles are 6x6s. We went with 2x6 trusses instead of steel cause it was about $85 difference per truss. If I remember right the steel truss was only going to save 2 trusses, so there was no making up the cost difference. My poles and trusses are set on 8' centers. I did go with a metal top and sides. Its really not cold enough here for insulation so I did'nt get it. 3 tornados came within 400 yrds within 17 hrs and she still stands.
My 40x60 is all metal. And tell ya I think I like the stick built more cause it seems easier to remodel if needed. kinda hard to nail a 2x4 to a steel post. Of course I cant weld so its a real big issue for me. Good luck.

 

[KRBrouwer]

I have a 40' x 40' metal building which I had built for $15,000 in 1992. It is on a concrete slab. It is an engineered all steel building with a 14' eave height, 4:12 roof slope, live snow load of 20 PSF. One advantage of this eave height and roof slope combination with the clear span steel beams is that the whole inside is available and you can easily have a second floor in any area that you need it. The building is holding up very well, and has weathered Hurricane Fran where 10 large pine trees (12" diameter) fell on it like a "pick up stick" pile. Only damage was a few dents in the eave, but no penetrations. The heavy duty metal on the roof has a 50 year warrenty. It is insulated with 2" of roll insulation applied when it was built. I also had a vent fan installed on one gable end to move out the hot air in the North Carolina summer, and would definitely recommend this if it gets hot where you are. I would build another metal building without a second thought.

Ken

 

[skidoo]

Well, I got a quote yesterday for a 40 x 80 wood frame with steel siding and roof. 2x6x 14' walls with sub-sheeting, R19 insulated all around, 4/12 roof with 60lb snow load, one insulated 12' door, one walk door, four windows. Not including concrete, electric, excavation, etc. Quote was for $40K. Is this reasonable for 2009 prices?

 

[EddieWalker]

That puts you at $12.50 a sq ft. Considering the roof and snow loads that it has to carry, it sounds reasonable. Is there an engineer or inspector to make sure that you are actually getting that snow load?

What type of 12ft door? Is that the height or width? I'd want that for both the height and the width.

When you say 2x6x14' walls, are they going to be stud walls? I ask because most pole bars made from wood have posts stuck into the ground and then purlins attached to the posts that you attach your siding to. If they are going to put in stud walls, then what will they be mounted to? A cement slab is the way most are done, but you said that price wasn't with a slab. Does this mean that you will pour a slab to meet the building specs firs?

R19 insulation is fiberglass rolls that go between 2x6 studs. It's good stuff if protected, but you really have to have interior walls for it to last. This will be another big expense. I like OSB for walls. It's easy to install, not too expensive and you can hang most anything from it. If you don't mind the look of it, it's an excellent way to do your walls.

You didn't mention the spacing of the trusses. How will they insulate the ceiling? They could do it at the roof and eliminate condensation that forms on the underside of metal buildings. For this, I'd prefer a solid type inulaton, or a plastic bubble type. R19 isn't much for a ceiling. Code for homes around here is R30. I imagine up north, you would want at least that much, maybe more. If you insulate on the ceiling, or bottom chords of the trusses, how will you support a ceiling? If the trusses are 8 feet apart, it becomes real dificult to span that distance witout allot of lumber, wieght and additional money.

This is not the cheapest way to go, and I'm curious if you've spoken to anybody who builds wood pole barns? Poles in the ground type of construction? This is the cheapest way to go, and proven technology that's more then 100 years old. Treated posts that are kept dry will last just about forever in the ground. The trick is to keep them dry, which the building will do when it's built. You can add concrete at any time. Do it when the poles go in, or after it's all done.

Another advantage to pole construction is the ground does not have to be level to start building. Many will build on uneven ground to get the building up as soon as possible, then go back at their leiser and addor remove material as needed.

If you are going with stud construction on a slab floor, then you really need to check out the prices of metal buildings. While metal has been on the high side lately, prices have droped and you might even find a company that's trying to move buildings to clear inventory and reduce debt. Just be sure to buy from an actual manufacter and not one of the many third party companies that call themselves metal building suppliers, but they just place the order for you and charge you for their time.

The price is in the details. Check their refrences in person. For this much money, don't trust the salesman or whoever you are talking to. Go see what they've done and talk to the owners. Go alone. Visit at least five refrences and while there, ask the owner of that shopr/barn if they know of anybody else who has a building by the same contractor. Your goal is to find people that he didn't put on his refrence list.

As a contractor myself, I have a list of refrences that I give out when asked for. I just put everyone that I've worked for on the list and let the person doing the checking decide on how many they want to call. In the last three years, I've only handed out refrences two times. Nobody has ever been called on my list. Fortunatly, it's all worked out for them, but I do wonder about how trusting people are when hiring somebody. I personally check the heck out of contractors before hiring them, but then my name is on the job and when I hire them to do a part of it, what they do will reflect on me and my future jobs. It's too important to risk or take a chance becuse they sound nice or compentent when talking to them.

A good example is a house that I was remodeling. The homeowners made some decisions and changes to the house that caused delays and put us back in time. When it came time for the sheetrock, I didn't have anybody lined up because of those delays and to get who I wanted, we'd have to wait a few weeks. They said they couldn't, but they had a friend who told them about a crew that he said was very good. They hired them. The guys who did the taping were a disaster. The others were fine, but these idiots filled in outlet boxes and didn't use tape on all the joints. After many complaints and lost time, we got most of them fixed. But not all of them. I was just out there again last week to look at a crack in the ceiling. There was no tape used in that joint. We can see it from the attic and from the edges of the crack. They are sick over it and now understand why I wanted to wait for the guys I wanted to use, but it's too late now.

Take the time now to make sure you get it right and know exactly what you are buying. There is no such thing as too much information. Every detail can save you money or ruin your building.

Eddie



Eddie

 

[kthompson]

If this has already been suggested I missed it.

Here all steel construction is less for insurance. Even steel shell with pole construction is same price as all wood. You may wish to price that. Since you are concerned with possibly wanting to or needing to sell...ask how each style holds up in resale.

 

[skidoo]

That puts you at $12.50 a sq ft. Considering the roof and snow loads that it has to carry, it sounds reasonable. Is there an engineer or inspector to make sure that you are actually getting that snow load?

What type of 12ft door? Is that the height or width? I'd want that for both the height and the width.

Yes, that was for a 12x12 door.

When you say 2x6x14' walls, are they going to be stud walls? I ask because most pole bars made from wood have posts stuck into the ground and then purlins attached to the posts that you attach your siding to. If they are going to put in stud walls, then what will they be mounted to? A cement slab is the way most are done, but you said that price wasn't with a slab. Does this mean that you will pour a slab to meet the building specs firs?

This assumes that a concrete foundation was already done.

R19 insulation is fiberglass rolls that go between 2x6 studs. It's good stuff if protected, but you really have to have interior walls for it to last. This will be another big expense. I like OSB for walls. It's easy to install, not too expensive and you can hang most anything from it. If you don't mind the look of it, it's an excellent way to do your walls.

I'll consider that too, but it is not included in this first quote.

You didn't mention the spacing of the trusses. How will they insulate the ceiling? They could do it at the roof and eliminate condensation that forms on the underside of metal buildings. For this, I'd prefer a solid type inulaton, or a plastic bubble type. R19 isn't much for a ceiling. Code for homes around here is R30. I imagine up north, you would want at least that much, maybe more. If you insulate on the ceiling, or bottom chords of the trusses, how will you support a ceiling? If the trusses are 8 feet apart, it becomes real dificult to span that distance witout allot of lumber, wieght and additional money.

That was not clear. I assume that it was for standard 16" or 24" centers.

This is not the cheapest way to go, and I'm curious if you've spoken to anybody who builds wood pole barns? Poles in the ground type of construction? This is the cheapest way to go, and proven technology that's more then 100 years old. Treated posts that are kept dry will last just about forever in the ground. The trick is to keep them dry, which the building will do when it's built. You can add concrete at any time. Do it when the poles go in, or after it's all done.

Another advantage to pole construction is the ground does not have to be level to start building. Many will build on uneven ground to get the building up as soon as possible, then go back at their leiser and addor remove material as needed.

If you are going with stud construction on a slab floor, then you really need to check out the prices of metal buildings. While metal has been on the high side lately, prices have droped and you might even find a company that's trying to move buildings to clear inventory and reduce debt. Just be sure to buy from an actual manufacter and not one of the many third party companies that call themselves metal building suppliers, but they just place the order for you and charge you for their time.

I don't necessarily want the cheapest, but quality at a reasonable cost. I did get a metal building quote also, $52K for a 40x60 with R13 wall and R19 ceiling. So, right off the start, the wood frame, I can get 800 extra square feet and more insulation for 23% less. The metal building estimate was verbal over the phone. The wood frame guy provided a somewhat detailed written quote.

I contacted a guy that specializes in pole buildings and he said that since the building will be against an embankment I would need a retaining wall and may need to do conventional constructions anyway. He said he would mail me some information. Haven't seen any... Anyway, I prefer to have a clear span in the building.

Snip...

Take the time now to make sure you get it right and know exactly what you are buying. There is no such thing as too much information. Every detail can save you money or ruin your building.

Eddie

Thanks...