Landscape Rake Gauge Wheels

[BukitCase]

Unless your gauge wheels "float" also? Are they mounted so they're in a FIXED position, or ???

 

[donconnery]

First off, apologies Don - I wuz starting to think you were "that dumb" (which still beats "stupid" - "dumb" is usually curable by learning, where "stupid" usually isn't

Second, I WAS "that dumb", never knew Kubota's smaller tractors didn't have position control (all my stuff is old, see my list)

Anyway, if I read your comments right your 3ph has only 2 modes, float or lift? See if this would work to get repeatability -

Set your gear up STATIC, with rake at depth (and attach angle) you want, adjust gauge wheels so they're on the ground - then set some blocks UNDER your lift arms, and try to lower the 3PH FURTHER - this is to make sure there IS no "power down" (you already "fooled me ONCE" :laughing

If the above is TRUE, you may be able to rig a couple chains and/or a turnbuckle of some sort, so that your 3PH can NOT go any LOWER than those "snubbers" - if that works, then you would just raise the 3PH between passes/turn-arounds, and lower it ALL THE WAY for the next run - that should get you the repeatability, and it's a few $$$ cheaper than a new tractor

any confusion on what I said please ask... Steve

HAHA!

As far as having two modes, that seems right. I mean, I can set it somewhere in between obviously, but yeah lever forward drops lift arms, lever backward lifts lift arms. Before I go into rigging up some blocks and chains and etc, let me ask you this....Maybe this would be better explained using my boxblade and an example, since it has a front and back as opposed to just a row of tines....

I lift the BB off the ground say, 1/8 of an inch, and it is level front to back. As lightly as I can possibly push, I lower the lift arms. The front and back of the BB contact the ground at the exact same time. The only problem is, my lift arms can still drop a little farther, which then throws everything out of wack. This is crappily demonstrated in the video I posted. Is this what you're getting at when you say to rig something up to prevent them from going further down then ground contact?

 

[donconnery]

I see what you meant by chain, my original chain comment was in regads to zzvyb6. Slowly starting to see why that reply with quote is so handy haha.

 

[donconnery]

Unless your gauge wheels "float" also? Are they mounted so they're in a FIXED position, or ???

They are mounted to the fame of the rake. There is a tiny bit of wiggle room due to machining but basically no they don't float.

 

[BukitCase]

Can you post a pic looking FORWARD at the rear (hitch) area of your tractor, specifically including where the toplink attaches?

 

[donconnery]

 

[Avenger]

After just watching (and commenting) on your video Don, I think I may have an idea:

Extend out your top link. Your lift arms "pull" down after you have it where the wheels are on the ground. So move your top link out and let them fall, that way your cutting angle isnt so raked back.
There must be a way to lower the lift arms completely and have the rake at the optimum angle for you. However, your cut will probably be too heavy now... CRAP! :mur:

I'll be honest, not a fan of that control lever.

Maybe get a trailer jack with a wheel. Bolt it to the frame in front of the rake. Let it ride on that wheel when it's in the down position. IDK. Now, I'm just spitballing stupid ideas.

 

[BukitCase]

OK, that helps - except there's a hose blocking the view of where your toplink hooks to the tractor - looks like there's at least one un-used hole BELOW where the toplink mounts, with some kind of pin in it - two q's, is that pin DOING anything other than filling the hole, and (2) is there more than one option for where the toplink itself goes? IME, most tractors offer at least two positions, some three. Lowest position gives you the most lift range (geometry) and highest one gives you the most lift capacity.

What I'm looking for here is a NON-moving mount for upper end of chains that is also CLEAR LINE OF SIGHT to where your snubbers mount (the turnbuckle just ahead of the lift pins) ... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

I'm not sure how far to carry this BS (Brain Storm ) 'cause I haven't seen a welder in your pics (does anybody NOT check out backgrounds??!?)
But I DO have some other possible suggestions depending on the answer... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Actually, I have a couple other ideas that do NOT involve welding but I need to re-mount the deck on my ZTR, dang weeds're gettin' the better of me - I'll check back later... Steve

 

[RjCorazza]

When I had a landscape rake and gravel drive, I leveled the rake frame (parallel to ground) with the toplink, then adjusted the gauge wheels to the depth desired. Lowered the 3pt so the gauge wheels are taking the weight of the rake, and off I went. I never had any leveling issues.

 

[donconnery]

When I had a landscape rake and gravel drive, I leveled the rake frame (parallel to ground) with the toplink, then adjusted the gauge wheels to the depth desired. Lowered the 3pt so the gauge wheels are taking the weight of the rake, and off I went. I never had any leveling issues.

I think this is the direction im going. Had a little brain fart in the car. I think I need to take the pins out of the wheels, get it where I want it, and then custom cut an extra set of bushings. Not sure if this will work or not.

Also, only have one spot to attach top link to tractor.

 

[BukitCase]

Don, I noticed that your machine has a sub frame for mounting a backhoe - you sounded like you're about to give up (or go a different route) on this problem, and if it's simple enough and will work for you, good deal.

With what's available to me, I would have your problem solved in about a day of messing with it and (literally) running down the road :laughing:

But I have quite a few tools, including 2 MIG welders, 2 stick welders (newer one also does TIG), a plasma cutter and oxy/acetylene torches, a fairly serious milling machine, drill press, etc, and several decades of experience including heavy industrial maintenance, plus running a 12-man maintenance crew the last 10 years before retiring...

NONE of which will make any difference because I have NO IDEA what YOU have available to you, either in experience or equipment availability -

Sooo, if you want to pursue this I can help, but to do that I'll need to know what YOU can (and WILL) do, what's available to you, etc - depending on your local availability of common tractor hitch parts, this could happen using (mostly) just off the shelf parts and maybe a bushing and a couple pieces of 1/4" thick steel with 2 holes drilled in them.

Let me know if you wanna take this further... Steve

 

[donconnery]

Don, I noticed that your machine has a sub frame for mounting a backhoe - you sounded like you're about to give up (or go a different route) on this problem, and if it's simple enough and will work for you, good deal.

With what's available to me, I would have your problem solved in about a day of messing with it and (literally) running down the road :laughing:

But I have quite a few tools, including 2 MIG welders, 2 stick welders (newer one also does TIG), a plasma cutter and oxy/acetylene torches, a fairly serious milling machine, drill press, etc, and several decades of experience including heavy industrial maintenance, plus running a 12-man maintenance crew the last 10 years before retiring...

NONE of which will make any difference because I have NO IDEA what YOU have available to you, either in experience or equipment availability -

Sooo, if you want to pursue this I can help, but to do that I'll need to know what YOU can (and WILL) do, what's available to you, etc - depending on your local availability of common tractor hitch parts, this could happen using (mostly) just off the shelf parts and maybe a bushing and a couple pieces of 1/4" thick steel with 2 holes drilled in them.

Let me know if you wanna take this further... Steve

I have a wooden workbench. Haha just kidding I have some tools but lets put it this way, I知 a computer guy. That being said Im willing to try some things. Yes that is the backhoe mount you are seeing.

 

[BukitCase]

OK, first of all my idea would make it take longer to switch to the hoe, but it would ALSO help you with optimizing the box blade - but it would NOT require ANY welding, cutting, or drilling (maybe )

Two of these 1/2" Hot Dipped Galvanized Eye Nut with 5/8"-11 UNC Tap would replace your upper hoe pins temporarily - by "temporarily" I mean until you need the hoe installed again...The 1/2" size eye nut has standard 5/8"-11 threads, you would need flat washers both sides + lock washer and nut. I would NOT, repeat NOT, put those directly into your upper hoe pin holes because those need to stay "pristeen" for a no-slop fit when using the hoe - instead, you would need a pair of bushings (one for each side) that are 5/8" ID (inside diameter) and whatever OD your pin holes are. Those would "sleeve" the 5/8 bolts up to the same diameter as your pins; then tighten it all up and you have the mount for the UPPER end of your snubber.

The lower hitch pins on the tractor might need replaced with something like this CountyLine Draw Pin, Cat 1, S722TSC at Tractor Supply Co. in order to get the threaded part long enough for ANOTHER pair of those eye nuts - the extra threads would allow those lower pins to also act as "through-bolts" for a size bigger "eye-nut", with the nut on the new lower pin holding the eye nut in place.

Reason for that - unless you could find an eye nut with FINE threads, it's doubtful they'd match.

Essentially, picture your existing lower hitch pin with longer threads, and one of those eye nuts sandwiched between the existing nut and the hitch arm. There would be no reason this would ever need to be changed back, unless you sell the tractor.

Mull this over, then we can discuss components for adjustable snubber chains... Steve

Edit - apparently erigging gets expensive for shipping, on Amazon they want $12 to ship a $4 part
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=eye+nut+...prefix=eye+nut+,garden,208&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_7_8

There are other options in that link, you could go down to 1/2" threads with no prob. The bushings I mentioned might be tricky, need to know pretty exactly the diameter of your upper hoe mount pins...

 

[donconnery]

Guys thanks for much for all the valuable posts.

And Steve....holy crap.

Works got the better of me the last couple weeks haven’t been able to get back here. Anyway, I’m gonna start looking into this in a few weeks, I’ve got some backhoe workcto do still this summer so I don’t think it’d ve wise to get this set up rolling yet. But I think it will work!

 

[BukitCase]

Don, I'm retired now (since 2013) but know whatcha mean; I'm a firm believer in the saying, "Life is the crap that happens to you while you're busy making plans"

And yeah, I'm at least 98% sure my "brain farts" will work (they nearly always do for MY stuff) - BUT... I just noticed that I'd missed something when I said this mod would work to improve your box blade ops too.

So, when you get some time if you can post a pic of your BOX BLADE's lower hitch pin area, I can "pick up that loose end", so to speak. Don't panic, worst that can happen is maybe another $20-30 in hardware :laughing: ... Steve

 

[donconnery]

I did some reading over the weekend about 3pt hitches and 1/4 inch valves and what not I guess I had a pretty bad understanding of them. Come to think of it, I don't know that wheels will even solve my problem. I never realized that no matter what the bottom setting is, it will still float up. This may all be moot. I took the pins out of the wheels and dropped the 3pt until all the tines just touched the ground. Then, I started stuffing washers on top of the bushings until it just reached the pins. Now with the pins in, once the wheels hit the ground, the tines can't go any lower. The angle will change a tiny bit if I bottom out the 3pt, but just barely. So I think that solves my bottom problem. Still haven't figured out how to eliminate the washboarding because when the front wheels come off of it, everything lifts up still.....

 

[BukitCase]

The washboard problem, if you can't get around it by multiple passes in both directions, can only be solved by basic geometry - for any hitch-mounted implement, the shorter your tractor's wheelbase and/or the longer the distance from rear axle to implement, the worse it's gonna be.

The only way I know to get around that one is to steal ideas from a REAL land plane, or build some sort of NON-3PH drag - basically just a pair of skids wide enough to support the weight of the drag, with cross pieces (blades) you can (usually) adjust for height til it works for YOU - google images for land plane, you should see a few million images (some of which might be small enough for less than a 600 horse tractor)

You already have the box blade, which in its stock form will be as frustrating for you as the rake - there are a few threads on here where people have modded their box blade with some long skids (cheaper than buying a LPGS, and done right works pretty good) - if you're interested (and especially if you want an excuse to learn to weld ) PM me your email. I can send you 108 pics of stuff like this (just the ones in my "land leveling" folder ). A lot of 'em I got right here, but couldn't tell you whose they were - plus, this site is too clunky when you try to post more than a handful... Steve

 

[donconnery]

The washboard problem, if you can't get around it by multiple passes in both directions, can only be solved by basic geometry - for any hitch-mounted implement, the shorter your tractor's wheelbase and/or the longer the distance from rear axle to implement, the worse it's gonna be.

The only way I know to get around that one is to steal ideas from a REAL land plane, or build some sort of NON-3PH drag - basically just a pair of skids wide enough to support the weight of the drag, with cross pieces (blades) you can (usually) adjust for height til it works for YOU - google images for land plane, you should see a few million images (some of which might be small enough for less than a 600 horse tractor)

You already have the box blade, which in its stock form will be as frustrating for you as the rake - there are a few threads on here where people have modded their box blade with some long skids (cheaper than buying a LPGS, and done right works pretty good) - if you're interested (and especially if you want an excuse to learn to weld ) PM me your email. I can send you 108 pics of stuff like this (just the ones in my "land leveling" folder ). A lot of 'em I got right here, but couldn't tell you whose they were - plus, this site is too clunky when you try to post more than a handful... Steve

I also have a LPGS . Cant get the results I want with that wither. Will pm you my email.