Land lease scam

[john_bud]

Hi,

I have a "situation". I leased out some land to an individual for him to hunt, "maybe" a young hunter too. He stated he is very busy and may not hunt at all. I gave him a VERY low down price for the entire season bow, grouse and gun hunting. (In WI) The lease spells out what he can and can't do. One requirement is that the name of all hunters be on the lease. Only he signed. Also, he can't sub-lease or bring any one else on the property without prior written permission. It's in black and white. No permissions were asked for or granted.

Well (you guessed it) he is a professional scam artist guide and had at least 4 groups on "private land guided hunts". I use the word "scam" as the wardens are investigating him based on complaints. They called and we talked about it at length. It seems according to statements he made during recorded interviews with the wardens he has made about $22,000 over and above what he paid me!

I only charged him a couple hundred as he seemed trustworthy, blah blah blah. Yeah, I goofed on that one.

We have a $5000 small claims limit. Can I go after him with separate cases for each time he brought paying customers on the property? Should I go after the hunters as they were technically trespassing? (I would only go after them so THEY would go after HIM). Most are already pissed as he promised multi hundred acre hunts and didn't deliver.

It's a real pisser that's for sure.

jb
http://forums.qdma.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=181540

 

[tallyho8]

First, try to check out his assets. It probably won't do any good to sue him for over $5000 if he doesn't even have $5000. Winning the suit is easy, collecting is the hard part.

 

[Tororider]

Bummer JB,
Its sad that you really can't trust anyone these days. I would call a lawyer and ask about separate counts of contract violation, local laws may be different for everyone.

Good luck

Can you go after him for poaching? Or since he didn't take the deer himself? Just thinking out loud.

And if you are going to sue, try putting a lien on any assets now before he is able to transfer them to someone elses name.

 

[dqdave1]

I think all you can get back is what you charged him for the lease. Basically, he did not abide by your lease terms.

 

[Tororider]

Not sure about that, my guess is you could sue for damages to your reputation and property, ie more than one person a couple times makes an impact on the forest/nature.

 

[randy41]

I agree with dqdave...I think it would hard to prove damages.

 

[woodchuckie]

He broke the terms of the lease. The lease is now null and void, period.

 

[wushaw]

Going after the hunters when they had no knowledge of his scam is not going to get you anywhere.
He broke the lease agreement, now he has no legall access to your land and that really is it.
If he is caught on your land he is now tresspassing which you can prosecute.

 

[john_bud]

He did break the terms of the lease. Shattered is more like it. I've been burning up Google on this. There are multiple types of contract violations or breaches. I think this is an "opportunistic" breach and as such punitive damages can be tacked on. I also am wondering if he planned on breaching the terms in advance (he's on tape being interviewed by a conservation warden and claims he entered the lease with the intent to guide) does that make it a criminal event? I have emailed a letter to the county District Attorney on the matter.

As far as damages, I think it would be pretty clear that he found the price is $1300 per hunter, it's what he charged them in bow. I think he charged 2x that in gun season. So the damage is from unjust enrichment (also from burning up google), he took money that should have been at least partly going into my pocket and directed it all to his. Punitively, I could claim all of it to punish him for his breach.

I think that the hunters are also at risk of prosecution for trespass / illegal hunting. That is also a Q to the DA. My going after them would then in turn have them go after him - making his miserable life just that much more miserable.

I'll drop a line when more is learned.

Thanks for the sympathy!

jb

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I don't think I would bother the hunters. They had no knowledge that anything was wrong with going on your property. Why give somebody greif when they did nothing to you? I don't think you could find a D.A. that would prosecute it anyway. He would probably look at you and think he's dealing with someone unreasonable and it may affect your future dealings with him as this case is concerned. IMHO. Talk to a lawyer before you do anything. I don't know about your state, but here, criminal charges have no bearing in civil court.