L805/L4060 real life lifting capacity

[houska]

Hi, I'm a near newbie buying my first tractor (got great general advice at my initial thread)

I'm now deciding between a L4060HST+LA805+BH92 combo versus a comparable Branson 4225H, which are surprisingly similarly priced where I'm at.

The biggest minus of the L4060 seems to be the lower, at least on paper, loader lifting capacity of 1715lbs vs 2700 for the Branson.
Can someone help me understand the real life lifting capacity of the LA805? Can you carry around a heaped bucket of wet gravel? An 8' long oak log in a grapple?

Idle thoughts:

• With the BH on, loaded rear wheels, I'll be 7000lb++, so I'm assuming it is the FEL capacity which is the limiting factor, not machine stability (I'm a newbie, tell me if this is wrong!)
• The LA805 is rated 1715lb, take away 400lbs for 72" HD bucket weight, so 1300 lbs at full height (and that's "at the pins", not levered out)
• ...which is less than a really heaped 15 cu ft of gravel at 100-125 pcf
• ...but I rarely need to lift to full height. How much more is the capacity to lift 2-4' off the ground?
• A 12" diam 8' red oak log is 400 lbs according to some online calculator. So a 16" is ~800, 24" (rare for me, but I have two lying right now) ~1600
• ....so feels like I need to make sure my grapple isn't too heavy, and I will be limited what kind of log I can lift to full height but probably much less so for lifting just 2-4' high

Do I have that right?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if the 1715lbs versus 2700 on the Branson means something in real life.

 

[jeff9366]

VIDEO: Let's Talk: Loader LIES! How specifications can be manipulated. - YouTube

TractorData.com shows bare tractor weight of Branson 4225H as 4,153 pounds, for practical purposes identical to Kubota L4060.

The weight of the Branson Loader must be significantly heavier than the Kubota LA805, which is 1,279 pounds. It takes more steel to support incremental 1,000 pounds lift capacity.

This may be good or bad for your applications.

A factory Backhoe is always sufficient counterbalance.

The Branson would be superior if you need to unload fully laden pallets from a truck. Fully laden pallets sometimes weigh 2,000 pounds.

Kubota shows struck capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 10.9 cu ft.

Kubota shows heaped capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 13.1 cu ft.

If repetitive loader work is your key metric, do not discount how productivity enhancing the Grand L HST+ transmission is.

I move a lot of Oak tree trunks on SSQA pallet forks, not a grapple.

 

[houska]

VIDEO: Let's Talk: Loader LIES! How specifications can be manipulated. - YouTube
[...]
The weight of the Branson Loader must be significantly heavier than the Kubota LA805, which is 1,279 pounds. It takes more steel to support incremental 1,000 pounds lift capacity.
[...]
Kubota shows heaped capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 13.1 cu ft.

If repetitive loader work is your key metric, do not discount how productive enhancing the Grand L HST+ transmission is.

Thanks Jeff. Appreciate the video, and also this related thread.
It does seem the Kubota and the Branson stated specs are at the same height, at the pins, so I don't think it's number manipulation, but it may be design choices. The Branson loader is about the same weight as the LA805.
I did find LA805 loader capacity also a) at 5' ht, and b) 500mm out. The 5' ht increases the load rating to 2202' which is reassuring (a significantly lesser increase than the LA525 on the L..01s it seems, however - interesting).
No fully laden pallets in my future, just different forms of wood and dirt

Can you say more about how the HST+ is productivity enhancing? I did watch Messick's video on it, but wasn't clear to me how many of those things actually matter for work in the woods and dirt piles. Both the Kubota HST+ and the Branson HydroMax have linked speed and throttle, which makes a ton of sense. I gather but am not sure the Branson doesn't have the purely-electronic automated speed overrides and anti-stall, but those feel like things you learn to do yourself anyway. Or maybe I misunderstood. (Ericm979 has commented on the hi/lo speed ranges in his reply in my other thread, still mulling that over and will hopefully try live.)

Thanks to all for advice.

 

[jeff9366]

The Branson loader is about the same weight as the LA805.

For a half ton greater lift capacity I would have expected the Branson FEL to weigh 600 (+/-) pounds additional.

Equal FEL weight of 1,715 lbs vs 2,700 lbs lift capacity loaders may be a comment on how conservative Kubota rates.


HST+ has many features and I presume each operator has favorite feature(s).

For my applications the HST+ half-range steps are #1. You can choose to have these half-range steps change automatically or manually. I like toggling in half-range steps manually as I work around a 40" deep burn pit regularly and do not wish to be surprised with a ratio change. In the photo, I could not have pulled stump from rear/center drawbar without HST+ LOW/LOW.

Second is Stall Guard. L3560 is my second new Kubota working same property. (I purchased too light the first time.) Doing Loader work I used to stall my antecedent Kubota B3300SU at least twice per hour, probably more. I go weeks without a stall with Stall Guard engaged. Its easy to forget Stall Guard because it operates deferentially in the background.

Third is ability to select speed of hydraulic response. I am old. I have hydraulic response set at 80% of normal. Works for me.

You have done careful research. You know about the Branson/TYM link. I suppose the worst case might be the most productive Branson/TYM dealers stay in business with TYM brand and the less productive/marginal dealers are eased out.

I am sure you will be happy with either Kubota or Branson.



Addendum: Kubota 0% financing.

If you elect 0% financing for six years and inflation stays around 2%, with compounding the effective price you pay for the tractor is reduced by 2% compounded; maybe 14% total?
(This assumes your compensation increases at least the Canadian inflation rate.)

Interest rate in Japan today, for ten year gov't money, is .019% per annum. Just about "free" money for Kubota.

 

[oosik]

You can get the real lift facts by looking at the lifting charts/graphs in the FEL Owners Manual. The "general info" listed in the spec sheets is usually at a point either 36" or even 48" forward of the lift/pivot pins and 48" off the ground. If this is what & where you will be "doing" it. Then these are the facts.

The center of my grapple is 12" forward of the lift/pivot pins and I NEVER lift a truly heavy load more that 6" off the ground. This makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE in the FEL's abilities to lift.

Don't just go by what is listed in the tractors general specs. Look at the FEL lifting charts. Know what you plan on doing. Will you be lifting a round bale to six feet. Like me, will you be lifting & moving a basaltic lava boulder the size of an office desk to a new location. If so - who really cares whether or not I can lift this 3000# boulder to a height of seven feet.

I grab it with the grapple - get it 4" to 6" off the ground and GO. Same with a large chunk of my ancient Ponderosa pines.

Besides - if you plan on helping the Egyptians build another pyramid - you are going to need an H**L of a lot more tractor.

 

[Jchonline]

Have you demoed these machines yet? My suggestion is to go and demo them. Mimic some of the tasks you will be performing on your property (without actually loading the bucket, etc). Get familiar with the HST+ on the Kubota and HST features on the Branson. See what fits you better (arm reach, foot pedals, seat, remotes, etc). Actuate the loader and HST front/reverse. See how tight they turn. Something will stand out.

 

[k0ua]

"I am planning on building another pyramid over in Egypt. What tractor and loader should I get?" Now that right there is funny.

I don't know if you caught the bit about just increasing the loader lift cylinder diameter to increase lift, but they will come at the price of speed to lift the load unless the hydraulic pump is made larger. There is another price to think about too. If you buy a tractor with really high lift capacity, and you actually use it near capacity for a long period of time, were the front axles, and bearings sized to stand that kind of service all the time?. Good question, or was the maximum lift number foremost in the engineer's/marketing department's mind? Just things to think and ponder over. In your case, I think either tractor will work fine for you. HST+ from Kubota is a really cool tranny though... Lots of features to make you life easier and the job go quicker.

 

[LD1]

2000# to a modest height is gonna be no issue with the Kubota loader IMO. It's real similar to my la844 loader.

A loader, because of geometry, has greatest lift capacity are ground level. And capacity is reduced with height. The curve is actually published in the manual but you won't find it online.

Instead....they give you Max height. And if you want the ground level number look at the breakout force. That gives you your min and Max. And at some lift height in-between, capacity is gonna be somewhere in-between.

 

[LD1]

Just looked. Only 300 pounds different in breakout force.

Me thinks the Branson number of 2700 might be a little inflated?

Especially when you see the lift cylinders are only slightly larger diameter. 55 mm vs 50 mm. But some of that gain with a fatter cylinder is offset by a shorter stroke. 455 mm vs 520mm for the Kubota.

In the real world, there is probably very little difference in what they can and cannot do

 

[k0ua]

In the real world, there is probably very little difference in what they can and cannot do

The HST+ transmission would make a lot more difference to me. I would buy the orange one.

 

[houska]

Thanks to all, much appreciated. Demoing one on Monday and the other on Wednesday.

 

[Fallon]

My L4060 couldnt quite lift a pallet (my flail mower which was suppose to weight 1,700lbs bare) labeled as 1,910lbs. I pulled off the PTO shaft & some plastic then could lift it a foot. Probably 250lbs of pallet forks on there too.

With loaded rear tires & a light or no rear ballast my L4060 felt way more stable than my L3200 with loaded rears & maximum rear ballast.

I would have liked to be able to afford a L4760 or bigger to get the big loader in addition to the extra HP. The medium loader is decent, but weak compared to the tractor weight. My L3200 could lift the rear off the ground with lots of ballast. There is a weak spot in every system. Ballast on the L3200, hydraulics or possibly front axle on the L4060.

 

[Fallon]

And found a photo... failed to lift that pallet rotated 90 degrees along the wide side with the weight closer too. Pushed the pallet up to the shop an inch or so off the ground.

 

[LD1]

The HST+ transmission would make a lot more difference to me. I would buy the orange one.

Yea I am sure that makes a big difference.

My comment was more directed towards loader comparison

 

[chim]

I thought I had the Kubota loaders figured out, and now am confused. I recall seeing somewhere that the loader number represented lift capacity in KG. That translates to 1,884 pounds for my LA855 loader and that's very close to the "lift to full height" spec at 1,878 pounds. However, it doesn't look like the LA1055 lifts quite that much.

 

[jeff9366]

The third digit actually represents the generation number of a particular loader.

Also, I expect Kubota makes some effort not to have the same three or four digits as some other tractor brand's loader.

So the numbers are approximate. For FEL capacity without the bucket peruse a Kubota catalog or Kubota's web site.

 

[mikescruggs]

I have a L4240 no cab HST tractor. It is my third tractor. I went with this size because it gave me the largest loader in the series. I run a 6' box blade with concrete filled cinder blocks for a counter balance. I have loaded tires and heavy duty chains. This allows me to carry a max load...ie if the loader will lift it I can move with it. However I would like to to be more stable and handle the loads better. I also find that frequently I am maxing out the capacity when I run the grapple or forks. I can load the bucket heaping with gravel and it will lift and haul it. I have a removable toothed bar and that helps when I am spending a lot of time moving dirt. This tractor is miles ahead of the 33 hp I had prior.

With all that said I am looking for the next tractor. I am settling into the 60/70hp range. They are not that much larger and the load capacity will make a difference. The only other choice is a R630, but I need the PTO.

Mike

 

[LD1]

I thought I had the Kubota loaders figured out, and now am confused. I recall seeing somewhere that the loader number represented lift capacity in KG. That translates to 1,884 pounds for my LA855 loader and that's very close to the "lift to full height" spec at 1,878 pounds. However, it doesn't look like the LA1055 lifts quite that much.

Apples to oranges I think.

Kubota loader numbers, as others said, representative t lift capacity in kg....with last number being series.

LA855 is 850kg capacity loader....5th revision
La1055 is a 1050kg loader...5th revision.

The difference is a few years back....Kubota switched the point at which they reference the lift capacity for their model number. The newer measurement...is the "bigger" number of measuring the capacity at the lift pins. The old number.bering was bucket center or edge.

So the two loaders you reference....1050kg at pins vs 850kg at bucket edge....really about the same....even though the model number doesn't lead you to believe that

 

[DonaldP]

Been there, done that...

I was lucky to have decided on a bit bigger tractor on the first trip around (where many first timers have under estimated their inevitable and eventually growing needs) with the L3650 Grand L with LA805 and BH92 over the LX or L2501 (or larger HP in those same basic frame sizes).

Every season I will clear dead wood, (blown in trees) from the lake that fronts the property. (I didn't think being downwind would be all that bad, but it truly is a working mans shoreline !!)

Some of this stuff is massive, and water logged. 20ft or more long and some 24" or more in diameter. I can pull these out of the water or along the beach with the Land Pride 72" Grapple (SGC15), and then to shore where I can lift (maybe only one end at a time if they are too massive or intertwined with other trees), cut them into smaller pieces, and then get them relocated.

I've had years where the debris field that's been blown in along the bank is 3ft to 4ft deep and 20 feet out along a 100 to 200ft shoreline. I used to clear this with brute force, a pickup truck with a plow, and towing the logs out with a work boat.
That took effort and time, dependent on the water level and how far the debris field is pushed inland.

Having never used a Tractor before last season, I can say that the HST Trans is the second most impressive thing about the Kubota Grand Series that I have so far experienced.

Its got Low Med and Hi Ranges for general speed/work considerations, and then each of those are effectively doubled with a fast or slow selector on the steering column (Like a turn signal lever) . (6 ranges of speed/work positions in a hydro unit... its just awesome!)

For clearing this stuff I'll hit the field with the 72" Grapple, and have 3 or 4 10ft high Burn piles ready to go within the first hour typically using Med range, and keeping it in HST slow. If I have a lighter load of material I'll flip it into HST fast mode while moving. It is definitely a time saver and becomes automatic without even looking at anything.

Additionally, I can keep the engine RPM basically at idle the whole time using less fuel and only using the power I need, when I need it. Stall Guard is automatic, and the Throttle up button on the loader stick lets me get faster engine RPM (and faster cycling of the loader/Grapple) without increasing the speed of the tractor at the wheels while its moving (its awesome as there is no physical link between engine speed and tractor speed except where its required!).

I do find I have to time it right and start the throttle up before I really need it, otherwise I end up waiting for the engine speed to greet the load. That too becomes second nature. OR I could just increase the throttle across the board and not have to worry about it. Again, that does not vary the speed of the tractor at the wheels either...

Maintaining an increased throttle paradigm also plays into the effective use of the DPF system. Continual low engine speed pressure on the engine (loading it up close to a stall) will cause additional DPF exhaust filtering to take place causing a required regen earlier than running a consistent engine speed.

 

[oosik]

I've had two tractors in the 40+ years out here. Both were geared. Currently Kubota M6040 with hydraulic shuttle shift tranny. It's plenty fast enough for this old dude.

It's like the lady said - " It's not so much the tool you have - it's knowing how to use it".