L3130: a good fit?

[Freds]

Don't mean to get too far off topic, but, my dealer said that a FEL with the curved arms doesn't have the lift capacity as the standard arms. Of course, none of the models he sells come with these, yet...
Any truth to this for those that have already compared similar models of tractors and FELs? Thanks.

Why more hp, "Riddler"? Let's see...
What helps prevent rpm from dropping when your tractor experiences an increased load and the answer isn't applying more throttle or easing up on the HST pedal?
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Rick_Morrell]

Fred:

Your dealer may be correct in a specific instance, but I don't think he can make that general statement. I used to work with the engineer who designed the first curved loaders for the Boomers. The main advantage of the curved design is it's cheaper to make (he said something on the order of a few hundred bucks for the fabrication). The loader lift characteristics are driven by pin placement and cylinder force. From that perspective, as long as you have the same pin locations and same cylinders you should be able to develop the same lift and breakout forces, regardless of what your loader frame looks like.


Rick

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Here are some loader specs for you, right off the websites of the various manufacturers:

FOR 21 to 24hp tractors, measured at the pivot point:

LA352FL1 for the Kubota B2410 = 925 lift, 1336 breakout
LA12/112 for NH TC24,Case DX24 = 1090 lift, 1720 breakout
Kioti 120 for the Kioti CK20 = 1074 lift, 1511 breakout
The above Kioti and NH/Farmall arms are curved arms; Kubota's are straight arms.

For 30hp tractors, measured at the pivot point:

LA402 for the Kubota B7800/B2910 = 1060 lift, 1684 breakout
LA14/114 for NHTC29/Case DX29 = 1256 lift, 2712 breakout
Kioti 130 for the Kioti CK25/CK30 = 1155 lift, 2046 breakout
The above Kioti and NH/Farmall arms are curved arms; Kubota's are straight arm.

Does this conclusively settle the debate of CURVED versus STRAIGHT arms? I don't think so. But it does point out that at least the NH/Farmall loaders have some serious capacity, followed very closely by the Kioti arms. The Kubota set up is weak at best when compared to these other two brands. JD has specs that I have not been able to make APPLES TO APPLES comparisons for, but their lift is lighter than the NH lift while the breakout exceeds the NH lift. It leads me to conclude they are measured at different points, which also is something that must be considered. All the measurements I listed above are at ground at the pivot point. Measure at elevation and all of the capacities go down, also measure at "X" inches in front of the pivot point and the capacities go down. So I only chose to post what I know to be exact comparisons.

What I do know for FACT, being that I use both Kubota and NH tractors is, that for my money, there is no better loader than the NH loaders because they offer the best visibility of any loader out there. Having spent a week on a B2910 with its long flat hood clearing out an industrial field, I really learned how much easier and faster it is to use the NH equipment! Being able to see what you are putting into the bucket is a HUGE time saving advantage that is very under rated. Even if the tractor & loader specs are identical, the tractor with the curved arm loaders is going to be faster & easier to use because you can SEE what you are doing. People have told me they can do just fine with "brand x" but when I put them on the 2 different machines and have them go move something they come off the NH sold on the advantages. Kioti loaders look to be nearly as good on paper (although weaker on breakout force) and nearly as good from the drivers seat. Their arms don't slope down as much as the NH/Farmall arms do. But they are mighty fine loaders.

The new JD 400X loaders, which have a curved design, are all for show. The arms actually do nothing for line of sight and still block visibility to the bucket. In fact, with the bucket on the ground, the JD 400X arms are still above the top of the hood of the JD tractors. But they sure look good. And in all fairness to JD, the 400X loader is built for a MUCH larger machine than I have been using for comparison so perphaps when they make a version for their small and medium CUTS that will be something that more favorably compares to the NH/Farmall units?

 

[Riddler]

Fred, my note was a little confusing. I was curious about the specific situations where you wish you had the 10 more HP. What implement and/or circumstance makes you think about it? I'm just trying to figure out if I might find myself in the same place someday, if you know what I mean. If so, I may lean toward the more powerful machine to start with. Thanks.

 

[Freds]

Thanks for the info Rick and Bob. It would have taken me forever to make sure I was comparing apples to apples. Sounds like my bota dealer is comparing apples to oranges. I'll have to have him go into more detail with me next time I see him.

Riddler, specific instances I can think of is brush hogging. You're travelling along with the cruise control set to make time and still provide a comfortable ride and the brush gets thicker, or you start up an incline, even a slight one. The rpms drop right off and I find myself doing one of the two things I mentioned or bumping the cruise lever back a little. Maybe even deciding to change ranges. Or, I'll have the throttle set low and quiet and pull the tractor out of the pole barn, I'll head towards the house and start up the incline by the drive. The tractor will stall if I don't increase the throttle even if I do back way off the HST pedal.

I was always told that torque is the effort to move something and horsepower is the rate at which you move it. Going by this thinking, more hp would let you keep the same rate of travel or pto speed when faced with a slight load change.

Of course there's always higher, thicker brush and steeper hills, so there may be no stopping, but if you can afford it and the larger weight/size of the tractor isn't a factor, then I'd go for it. My jump to a larger machine is most noticeable because I'm not always running the tractor at max throttle, not that that's a bad thing, maybe it isn't, but it makes me feel better knowing I have power to spare.

 

[Riddler]

Fred, thanks much. That's the sort of insight I was looking for. I know my question must sound dumb to anyone who has spent time in a seat pulling a brush hog over varying terrain, but getting a sense of what it's like to use these implements before you've made a buying decision can be very helpful. I would have guessed that your preference for more HP was probably due to exactly what you described, but now it's not a guess!! Obvious perhaps, but quite helpful to somone in my shoes.

 

[OrangeGuy]

Hey Bob,

You've been preaching the "curve loader arms is better" argument for quite some time. Last weekend I had the opportunity to drive some of the new NH CUTs with "curved" loader arms. To be honest I could not see any sight advantages over "traditional" loader arms. The loader boom arms, whether curved or traditional, block little of the bucket. Regarding the sloped hood, the only way I could see more of the bucket was to stand up.

I even have a cab on my tractor with a traditional loader boom and have no problem with sight lines to the bucket.

I even sat on a new JD 20 series with their new curved loader boom and saw no advantages.

OrangeGuy