KY #1 in ATV deaths

slowrev · Dec 28, 2005

I just read that in the Lexington paper this morning. Not something to be real proud of though. It looks like a helmet law for those under 16 is in the works. On public and private land.

Ben

drzmatt · Dec 28, 2005

No one over 16 has been killed?

Cliff_Johns · Dec 28, 2005

Well, some state has to be #1, I guess.

Any thoughts as to why KY is number 1

Cliff

HGM · Dec 28, 2005

I always find it ironic that the knee jerk reaction is always to make helmets manditory. Why wouldnt training be the main focus? You need a license to drive a car......

This is a touchy topic because of the emotional point of veiw that anyone who has lost someone has for the matter. Most accidents happen because someone was careless, on an ATV this is even further concentrated because the accidents are usually self inflicted... A helmet will help, but why not try to prevent the incident all together.. Even if helmets are made manditory, I prommise there will still be close to the same number of accidents because of the "hold my beer and check this out" and the "yes son, if you can start it you can ride it"mentality.....

Bottom line, teach your kids saftey when it comes to ATV's, guns, cars, drugs, etc....... I cant stand the trend for so many to expect the government to mandate saftey instead of promoting training and being a good parent....

BlueToy1 · Dec 28, 2005

Exactly...welcome to America where far too many require others to fix their problems.

Farmwithjunk · Dec 29, 2005

(
Well, some state has to be #1, I guess.

Any thoughts as to why KY is number 1

Cliff )

I've got a boat-load of opinion on this subject.

First, I can't fathom why some people are opposed to "knee-jerk reactions" of mandating under 16's to wear helmets. The same reason why 16 year olds can't carry handguns.... The same reason it's reqired 16 year olds go to school... the same reason why 16 year olds can't sign a binding legal contract....

In 99.99% of the cases, they aren't mature enough to ALWAYS make the right choices, and in a large majority of cases, aren't supervised by RESPONSIBLE adults that will make them follow the path of sensability.

I grew up on dirt bikes, street bikes, and ATV's. I am a lifetime AMA member. I don't ride anymore, but LOVE the sport still. I can't understand why people who CLAIM to also love riding, believe it's their GOD-given right to shoot the sport in the foot whenever they so desire.

Like Andre Agase said on his old camera commercial, "Image is everything". Create a bad impression of the sport in the publics eye, and it will always be an uphill battle. I don't have figures to go by, but I'd guess 75% (at least) of Americans DON'T ride ATV's. They pay insurance (health) The rates are effected by numerous things. Not least of which is hospitals dealing with indigent care. I'd venture a guess that a fair number of ATV victims end up in that catagory. (At lest in Kentucky, not known for it's individual wealth)

A good friend of mine runs an ATV training facility, sponsored by Honda. Their dealers give buyers the opportunity to go through a 6 hour training session. Like helmets, it isn't mandated by law, so MOST buyers forego the training. It's usefull, but certainly not the cure.

Like so many things the youth of this world face, I believe the answer is in ADULT (read PARENTAL) supervision and responsibility. That IS mandated to a certain level, but virtually un-enforceable until there's a disaster.

Kentucky offers several public access ATV riding area's. The sport is promoted as a tourist attraction of sorts. The state is largely rural. There are literally THOUSANDS of riding areas. From my travels, back in the day when I raced dirt bikes, I'd say Kentucky ranks in the top 5% of states with the most available riding areas. (legal OR non-legal, as well as private land)

Kentucky is a poor state. It ranks near the bottom rung in education. It usually ranks low in most health catagories. All contribute to the problem of children doing dangerous activities. (Kentucky ranks #1 or #2, depending on who's poll you believe, in per capita smokers.-----#1 in CHILDREN [under 16] smokers)

I don't believe in a heavy-handed government. I DO believe in protecting children NO MATTER HOW IT'S DONE. To me, it's worth sacrificing a few "unalienable rights" to save kids from a lack of responsible parents.

I'm certain it will be brought up that the majority of ATV deaths in Kentucky are LEGAL ADULTS. YEP! They certainly are. BUT... They grew up as unbridaled youth, with little thought to what can (and often DOES) happen when an untrained, unprotected, irresponsible person participates in a dangerous sport.

It all starts with the kids..............

riptides · Dec 29, 2005

A very good reply to a very heated subject.

( Like so many things the youth of this world face, I believe the answer is in ADULT (read PARENTAL) supervision and responsibility. That IS mandated to a certain level, but virtually un-enforceable until there's a disaster. )

Unfortunate we all see and know adults who just don't give a hoot about supervision, responsibility and accountability. Therein lies the problem. They don't even lead by example, because they set no example to follow.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

HGM · Dec 29, 2005

Maybe you misunderstood my helmet stance... For kids I agree, but it definitly isnt the cure.....The public has become so disconnected from their kids, in general, that most of the new laws are to make things less harmfull rather than to educate properly to avoid the situation presenting the harm.

I to have been riding ATV's and street bikes for years. I have done some stupid stuff off road, without proper training. I attended a saftey course for street bikes(AMA sponsored) and concider myself an educated rider now because of how much
I learned and practiced. I highly recomend that class to ANYONE, whether you ride or not... Since I sold my bike a couple of years ago and am limited to how much I get to ride now, when I get my next one, I'll sign up for the course again just for practice. I have passed on my learnings to my son, and he will attend this course before he can get his drivers license.. My parents have been here this week and rode with my son on his 4wheeler. They are blown away with how safe and in control he is of his bike.. Not to mention his gun, knives, my truck, and whatever other tools he uses...He's only 10... I spend allot of time with him, I know I can trust him. Even with peer pressure, he will make the right decision.. I know most parents will make this claim only to be let down, but I have reason to belive I can be confident...

I think we're on the same page, just that I may not have been clear on the helmet thing. Kids should be required to wear helmets on bikes and seatbelts in cars/trucks, no argument there... I just hope people dont see this as the fix...I could go on about irresponsible parenting, but I think you guys get the idea of what I'm saying and I'd be preaching to the quire anyhow....

Farmwithjunk · Dec 29, 2005

I might have worded things in such a way as to make you think I was in disagreement with what you stated in your first post. Not so...

In fact, you hit it right on the head, pardon the pun.

I hold on to my (sometimes rather unpopular) belief that ALL motorcycle/ATV riders should wear a helmet ALL OF THE TIME, regardless of age. Our desire to keep our "freedom" has created a bad image amongst the non-riders of the world. Isn't it the responsibility of "cyclist's" to police their sport, so as to keep UNJUST laws from dealing with issues that SENSABLE laws could deal with?

Back when I was still active in cycle racing, we had a local club, complete with club grounds. We held several hare scrambles, moto-X, and one enduro yearly. We had a "law" on our club grounds. ANYONE caught riding, even a few feet, without a helmet was barred from the grounds for a period of 1 year. It only happened a couple of times. Word travelled fast. Everyone knew better. It wasn't always convenient, but it projected an image of a SAFE clubgrounds.

I'm an advocate of cyclist's being stricter on themselves than lawmakers ever thought of being.

But we always go back to that idea of PARENTS being responsible for their kids. Those unsupervised kids grow up to be irresponsible parents, who have MORE unsupervised kids.

slowrev · Dec 29, 2005

Good posts Farmwithjunk.
I am not sure why KY is #1, however it might be the mostly rural nature of ky or perhaps the rough terrain. I do know that I am viewed as different for not having an ATV. It apppears that almost everyone is supposed to have one, whether they have a place to ride it or not. I personally know of several who drive a $1,500 vehicle and have a $5,000 ATV. Go figure...
ATV's are handy and fun, but my back would not respect me in the morning if I rode one /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ben