Comparison Kubota VS Yanmar

[scoutcub]

I own a Yanmar LX4900 and its a great machine. Have the dual rear remotes and front aux valve for my grapple. Very well engineered add ons, I installed them myself, which if you were up to the task could save you some $$$. Shop around on the tractors, I always get several quotes before pulling the trigger. Do several test drives on each machine to see if one or the other stands out in your mind.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

The Yanmars you are discussing are direct injection engines where as the Kubotas are not. Indirect is cheaper, and slightly less efficient. Durability would be about equal except for what ever the builder puts into it to make it more or less. The Yanmar engines are definitely top stuff. Just passing that along. Not interested in educating the public on all the quibbles about direct injection. Just letting folks who know not miss out on this fact about Yanmar engines. I learned this on the trail of coming to understand my perkins, (great engine) on the Dexta, then on my dodge commins trucks as the years went by. When I started shopping for a new tractor after 20 years out of the market, I was a bit surprised that John Deere which still had my heart strings, and then Kubota which won my heart strings for a while, did not have direct injection. That indirect stuff went out with Old Navistar ford diesels I thought.

By accident I stumbled into a test drive of the Yanmar I now own and I instantly said nice tractor but was still on my way to buy a LS or Kubota but while haggling over price I got to researching the Yanmars and in particular the engine story played out. I decided I was not going to pass up such a well engineered tractor because of poor marketing. I don't buy color.

The engine is sweat, those planetary gears in the rear drive are strong and quiet, the loader is awesome. And I believe I saved a bunch of money because poor marketing was making an orphan out of it.

But I don't believe there are going to be many if any more orphans. Yanmar has a new line of tractors, with a world changer transmission in the line up( hydrostats will become a thing of the past except for lawn mowers) and won't be cheap.

I think your statment is no longer correct (or may never been correct, I don't know). The Kubota Teir 4s are a common rail direct injection engine. Just want accurate facts out there.

 

[Raised on a Deere]

BTW I believe all tier iv are direct injection. Everyone was moving that way. Yanmar diesels were that way years ago. For the most part who cares. If it runs and puts out the power you want, then who knows the extra fuel you burn. It is hard to isolate so you could actually see the difference is there. One guy says I mowed all day on x gallons etc. My turbo Yanmar sure does stretch the fuel. It really became apparent this past summer as I put about 200 hours over three months. I was hauling noticeably less fuel than my neighbors. Not a big deal except for less trips to the fill up and less money is always nice.

None of this would be a deal breaker for me in a tractor hunt but in my case the Yanmar caught me by surprise, and it is proving to be a nice one.

 

[Raised on a Deere]

I think your statment is no longer correct (or may never been correct, I don't know). The Kubota Teir 4s are a common rail direct injection engine. Just want accurate facts out there.

At the beginning of my article I said the engines you have been discussing, referring to the tier 3 stuff. Indirect was probably always true for Kubota until tier iv, I really do not know. Kubota went to direct injection with tier iv, I don't know what their bigger tractors had but when I was shopping two years ago all their cut and scut engines were indirect. When I noticed that Yanmar had direct injection I took another look at their machines. That is when I was surprised to find that John Deere and Kubota, the two leading producers, were riding the older technology, something that had been abandoned by trucking, automotive and other world class engines. Yanmar was direct injection much much earlier.

 

[NHSawyer]

I have an LX410 since mid 2011. I love this tractor it does everything I need. Before buying it I look at the Kubota L3800 it was not in the same class as the LX410. I would not hesitate to buy another one but I doubt I will ever need to.

 

[Bota4me]

The Yanmars you are discussing are direct injection engines where as the Kubotas are not. Indirect is cheaper, and slightly less efficient. Durability would be about equal except for what ever the builder puts into it to make it more or less. The Yanmar engines are definitely top stuff. Just passing that along. Not interested in educating the public on all the quibbles about direct injection. Just letting folks who know not miss out on this fact about Yanmar engines. I learned this on the trail of coming to understand my perkins, (great engine) on the Dexta, then on my dodge commins trucks as the years went by. When I started shopping for a new tractor after 20 years out of the market, I was a bit surprised that John Deere which still had my heart strings, and then Kubota which won my heart strings for a while, did not have direct injection. That indirect stuff went out with Old Navistar ford diesels I thought. By accident I stumbled into a test drive of the Yanmar I now own and I instantly said nice tractor but was still on my way to buy a LS or Kubota but while haggling over price I got to researching the Yanmars and in particular the engine story played out. I decided I was not going to pass up such a well engineered tractor because of poor marketing. I don't buy color. The engine is sweat, those planetary gears in the rear drive are strong and quiet, the loader is awesome. And I believe I saved a bunch of money because poor marketing was making an orphan out of it. But I don't believe there are going to be many if any more orphans. Yanmar has a new line of tractors, with a world changer transmission in the line up( hydrostats will become a thing of the past except for lawn mowers) and won't be cheap.

to me i would still rather an indirect diesel. Maybe im old school but in tractors i want simple and reliable and thats not what a direct injected diesel is. They are computer controlled and all have turbos i think. Or most of them. I like new technology but love diesels being simple

 

[Raised on a Deere]

to me i would still rather an indirect diesel. Maybe im old school but in tractors i want simple and reliable and thats not what a direct injected diesel is. They are computer controlled and all have turbos i think. Or most of them. I like new technology but love diesels being simple

Direct injection is not more complicated than indirect injection until you get to the common rail stuff which Tier 4 pretty much forces to happen. The direct injection cummins diesels in dodge truck since 91 or 92 were purely mechanical machines. Dodge Cummins went to common rail in 2003 and it has electronic controlled injectors. The direct injection engines forced ford and GM to move away from indirect injection because indirect was too inefficient and could not make the power to weight ratio needed for over the road and still compete with direct injection. Electronics came in with common rail.

My Yanmar Turbo has no electronics whatsoever except for a simple electric fuel pump to get fuel from the tank to the engine area. The non turboed Yanmars also had no electronics until Tier 4. I am kind of pleased to have simple tier 3 tractors, but the quietness of the tier 4s is attractive to me and I wont miss the non common rail engine noise if I ever move on to a newer tractor in the future. I can still do all my own mechanical on what I have. The tier 4 stuff will surely put me at the mercy of my dealer and I have successfully avoided that all my life.

 

[TomSeller]

I googled the indirect/direct subject and came up with this post from PAULB on May 3, 2000

#4
PaulB
Join DateMar 2000Posts425LocationNew York stateTractorKubota B1700 HST
Re: Kubota Engines & Indirect Injection
Having recently completed my phD (phony Degree) in diesel mechanics, please allow me to clear up this issue. I know the engine (or is that motor) on my beloved B1700 has DIRECT fuel injection because I always pour the diesel DIRECTLY from the can into the fuel tank. On the other hand, it may have INDIRECT injection, because if I do spill some fuel onto the hood it them drips all over and takes an INDIRECT path to the garage floor. That being said, my monthly ppayments come DIRECTLY out of my pay check, but it took considerable slight of hand and INDIRECT reasoning to convince my wife to let me buy it in the first place. ...I sit DIRECTLY on the seat to drive it, but I have to take an INDIRECT path out to the barn or I will run into the house...first thing in the morning I usually come DIRECTLY to the computer to go to tractorbynet, but sometimes I stop in the bathroom first, so that would be INDIRECT... I am so confused. What I do know is that I get 10 hours of use out of 5 gallons of diesel, it doesn't smoke at all, has hardly any smell, starts at 5 below zero, etc, etc, so in the end I don't think the concern of direct vs indirect is nearly as important as the quality of engineering and manufacture that goes into the motor.

 

[paulfun9]

.

The engine is sweat, those planetary gears in the rear drive are strong and quiet, the loader is awesome. And I believe I saved a bunch of money because poor marketing was making an orphan out of it.

.

If one has planetary gears and the other doesn't that would be a big Plus in my humble opinion!

 

[terryknight]

Direct injection is not more complicated than indirect injection until you get to the common rail stuff which Tier 4 pretty much forces to happen. The direct injection cummins diesels in dodge truck since 91 or 92 were purely mechanical machines. Dodge Cummins went to common rail in 2003 and it has electronic controlled injectors. The direct injection engines forced ford and GM to move away from indirect injection because indirect was too inefficient and could not make the power to weight ratio needed for over the road and still compete with direct injection. Electronics came in with common rail.

Let's clear this up a bit. The Cummins diesel in Dodge are direct injected. Dodge started putting diesels in 1989, with the VE pump (then p pump, then vp44). Ford had indeirect injection in the IH 6.9 (1983)and 7.3 (1988) InDirectInjection motors, in 94 with the PowerStrokeDiesel all fords went to direct injection, GM moved to direct injection with a common rail system on the durmax in 01, the 6.2 and 6.5 Detroits were indirect from 82 till production stopped. the Toyosha in our 1989 Massey was direct injection, the 2.9 on my Deere is direct injection. the 3 cylinder in the 00 Kubota, you guessed it direct injection. Direction injection has been around for a long, long time. With electronics diesels can have more injection events per cycle leading to better efficiency, lower emissions, more power, and lower noise.

 

[TomSeller]

Fact Check

This would indicate the L4060 Kubota referenced in this thread is direct injection

TractorData.com Kubota L4060 tractor engine information

 

[jaydee325]

I think your statment is no longer correct (or may never been correct, I don't know). The Kubota Teir 4s are a common rail direct injection engine. Just want accurate facts out there.

This is an incorrect statement.

I'll use a B2301/B2601 tractors as an example. The 2301 uses a model #D1005 engine (22hp) and the 2601 uses a model #D1105 (25.5hp) engine. Both of these engines are listed as 5 series engines on the Kubota Engine America website and both are shown as indirect injected (IDI) naturally aspirated engines.

The 3 series engines (37 to 65hp) are shown as direct injected (DI). 2 of the 4 models listed are naturally aspirated and 2 are turbocharged.

There are 8 different series of engines shown on the engine website. It was fun looking at all the different configurations.

 

[s219]

It's not helping that you all are mangling the diesel tiers -- most compacts under 75HP have been Tier 4 Interim for many years.

Tier 3 only ever applied to 75HP and up.

Tier 4 Final is what has added complexity to tractors over 26HP, starting in 2014/2015.

I don't like to harp on this all the time, but when it gets mixed into conversation like this it really confuses things.

 

[jaydee325]

It's not helping that you all are mangling the diesel tiers -- most compacts under 75HP have been Tier 4 Interim for many years.

Tier 3 only ever applied to 75HP and up.

Tier 4 Final is what has added complexity to tractors over 26HP, starting in 2014/2015.

I don't like to harp on this all the time, but when it gets mixed into conversation like this it really confuses things.

View attachment 454578

I was referencing the Kubota Series or Families of engines, not the emission tier series.

Kubota Engine America - INDUSTRIAL DIESEL ENGINES

 

[Katahdin]

I think all the emission tier stuff comes down to is:

If you're not sold on the latest emission controls, like DEF fluids, particulate filters, regen, turbos*, etc. You can still buy Yanmar CUT like the LXs off the dealership lot that have excellent reliability and engineering reputations, and a 5 year-2000 hour warranty.

But act soon, these Interim TierIV/IIIA CUTs aren't going to be available forever. The Yanmar full Tier IV models are starting to arrive.

*the 49hp LX has a turbo. The 41hp and 45hp LX models are naturally aspirated.

 

[s219]

I was referencing the Kubota Series or Families of engines, not the emission tier series.

Kubota Engine America - INDUSTRIAL DIESEL ENGINES

No worries, I wasn't referring to your post at all -- didn't see any mention of the tiers.

 

[husseyhill]

Coming down to the wire. Everyone has had some good thoughts. The Yanmar is a tier 3 and he will not go down on the price. I understand the simplicity factor of the tier 3 but it is a 2014. The Kubota dealer is a known entity around these parts - actually lives up the street. Dealer has been around for decades, used to be a client years back. Said he'll take it in with him to work if that is ever needed. That is SERVICE!!!!! AS far as resale - I think the thread has concluded that the Kubota will probably provide the best return, within reason. I appreciate everyone's input and will let you know how it goes. If we don't get anymore snow in the next week or so I plan on getting in the woods and starting a project or two.

Thanks to all

 

[s219]

Coming down to the wire. Everyone has had some good thoughts. The Yanmar is a tier 3 and he will not go down on the price.

Don't want to belabor the point, but it is a Tier 4 Interim engine. Make sure you know what you're buying. If the dealer is saying Tier 3, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[scoutcub]

Have you shopped around for pricing? I have dealt with Better power equipment in Waterbury, vt, not sure how far that is for you.....Dave is the owner and was very good to work with. And he will deal.....