Kubota Oil...A decision!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 15, 2001

Kubota Folks...

I wish I had the time, I would survey all nationwide Kubota dealers by phone (they probably wouldn't return a mail survey) and see what they say about UDT versus "SUPER UDT" (Super= super spendy).

I would send all my results to Kubota with a simple question...Do you acknowledge that your dealer base feels you are full of it when it comes to your OWN tractors?

I called 5 more dealers today, and talked to both parts and service. One said they use Super because it is required by the warranty. ALL others said they don't use it in ANYTHING, HST GST with the exception of excavators, or if they know the tractor is destined to live somewhere where it is very cold and will sit outside at night or when not being used for many hours at a time. Three of them don't even carry it!

One said they stopped shortly after their first purchase of it a long time ago when they were told "by Kubota?" that it was for cold use only. The manuals say nothing about this. But it makes you wonder how something so simple can be ignored by Kubota's own dealer network!

They were not shy at all volunteering this info.

del

JATO_RaT · Mar 16, 2001

Del, maybe its just not that big of a deal. If they were reporting major malfunctions with UDT perhaps then it would. Myself, I just don't care, as long as oil is in there and everything is working well. Then again, I live in a rather warm climate, especially since reading about the "New Englanders" posts on moving snow. Perhaps a Super UDT oil change would be super worthwhile. Unless they are having big problems with the existing lubrication they are using, its probably more an exercise in "what if" or "what would happen" with a different hydraulic oil. The only thing that I have seen listed here about Super UDT is the odor that eminates from it. In the end, the end result of having used UD for the first 400 hours on my L4850's life and now the considerably more costly Amsoil 30 weight sysnthetic hydraulic oil, I can tell you there is no perceivable difference. While the 4850 is not HST, it does use a "Wet Clutch" that is, a clutch that is bathed in the hydraulic fluid continuously. Rat...

Thomas · Mar 16, 2001

del,
My owners manual says UDT and I also ask my dealer if it would be okay to switch to Super UDT,and he said I shouldn't do to the cold region I live in.
Indeed you could have a very interesting poll should you decide to do it.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Snell · Mar 16, 2001

Thomas,
Your dealer said "you shouldn't" use Super UDT in your tractor??? I'm assuming that your average winter temp is in the same range as ours (about 10 F in the winter for four months). The advantage of the Super is the viscosity. Much as diesel will gel, put a capful of UDT in your freezer and see what happens... or even better, put UDT and Super UDT in the freezer and compare results. Those who operate in warmer climates are very correct... the Super would be a waste of money but for those running the tractors in cold weather, especially the HST and GST models it is highly recommended. If you have a block heater that "prewarms" the tractor engine/oil, it may not be as necessary. It is unfortunate that not all dealers are well informed about the difference, but I understand that if it is an issue that never comes up (like in Bird's area), in general there will be less inquiry/information about it. Many times it is customer inquiry that helps increase the dealers knowledge (if they don't know the answer, they will find out...)

skent · Mar 16, 2001

My books, both owners manual and service manual, (f/B7300 HST) all say "USE SUPER UDT"

they say nothing anywhere about if its warm or cold to use this or that. They never even mention UDT.

My local dealer does not stock it but will special order it if I really want it.

Steve

Snell · Mar 16, 2001

Some people out there have an owners manual that says "use UDT or Super UDT". Clear as mud... The owners manuals are written in Japan. Those of you that have the original manuals for the late 70's Kubota's will find the recommendation to use only gear oil (80-90) in the tractors. Come to find out, this was not the smartest thing Kubota has done (especially for those tractors out weathering the cold). The Super UDT will not hurt the tractor so Kubota is doing a job of CYA. They don't know if the tractor will end up in northern Montana or southern Florida so the manual says use the Super just in case the tractor ended up in a place where the temps go to the low end of the scale. If your dealer does not even keep it in stock, chances are it is not needed for the climate zone you are in.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 16, 2001

No, no dealer said I "shouldn't" use Super UDT because of problems, just because I shouldn't as I "shouldn't" go buy a 20,000 3/4" inch chain to tow things with my tractor...overkill.

It very very rarely gets below 30 degrees where I live and I can't see ever wanting to go play on the tractor if it did. My tractors are garaged also.

I can see a definite advantage to Super if I was in a colder area. I wish there were specs out there to compare it to Amsoil, which is probably the way I'd go in a colder climate.

del

Thomas · Mar 16, 2001

Snell,
Thanks for the advice,and when I'm at my dealer tomorrow I'll ask evem more question on this topic.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Snell · Mar 16, 2001

Thomas,
Please let me know what they have to say about it. I really am curious as to how they respond.
Thanks

JonSpinosa · Mar 16, 2001

I can not understand all the fuss over the cost of super UDT versus UDT oil. I think that even the most skeptical synthetic oil person would admit that synthetic and dino oils are equivalent. However, most people will agree that synthetic oils are better, therefore logic would tell us that super UDT is all around a better oil for our Kubota's. Therefore, offering us the best protection for our investment.

After saying all that, I can not understand the fuss to spend an extra $30.00 for the added cost of super UDT oil. Most compact tractors only require 3-5 gallons of hydraulic/transmission fluid. My BX2200 holds only 2.7 gallons of hydraulic oil. Super UDT cost $65.00 per 5 gallons versus $35.00 for 5 gallons of regular UDT.

Therefore, an extra $30.00 spent over the recommended hydraulic oil life of 1000 hours or probably 10 plus years for most owners equates to less that $3.00 per year to protect our $15,000 investment. If someone is not willing to spend an extra $3.00 per year probably should not own a Kubota. This would even be less for the BX at 2.7 gallons. Could someone explain if my logic is flawed? At $3.00 per year I want the best for my Kubota's!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 16, 2001

A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION

I know this subject has been practically beat to death on this board, but I'll add a few more comments:

- 90 wt. in early 70's machines -
Back in the day, 90 wt. worked well in the machines because they were gear drive with a dry clutch and the 3 ph worked fine on 90 wt. If, however you installed a loader the 90 wt. really did'nt agree with the loader hydraulics.
UDT is alot more realistic for use with hydraulics. The only drawback with using UDT in the older gear drive machines is the transmission (main shaft) tends to spin longer after the clutch pedal is depressed causing a little bit of gear grinding when shifting. (less drag on the trans shaft and gears due to the lower viscosity of UDT). If I'm servicing an old gear drive without an added on hydraulic system (loader, front blade, aux hydraulics etc.) I use 90 wt. When servicing the latter, I use UDT. The only time you grind gears while using UDT is initially. If you hold the clutch in for a 10 count before the initial engagement, most of the time you'll get a clean shift.

- UDT VS. SUPER UDT-
First a little backround to show that Kubota is'nt the only one.
Before coming to my current dealership I worked at a John Deere dealer. Initially it was 90 wt. (same deal) Then it was universal tractor fluid (UTF) Then JD decided that their newer
machines would require Hygaurd (JD brand) after using Hygaurd for a few years it was determined that in colder climates "Low viscosity Hygaurd" was the way to go, which was much more expensive (double the price) than Hygaurd. Of course JD says if you're not using our fluid your warranty is void. (sound familiar so far?). Back to Kubotaland. A few years ago I was told by a Kubota tech rep. that use of regular UDT in everything other than GST tractors was O.K.
Even though tech data and owners manuals stated otherwise in some cases (all cases on the latest stuff). The rational for super in the GST's? In cold temps. on initial start up and engagement of the GST the clutch would'nt lock up for approx. 15 to 45 seconds with regular UDT. But with super you could crank and go.

Final thoughts:
In my shop UDT is $7.00 a gallon and super is $14.00 a gallon and when your changing a 10 gallon reservoir the money adds up quick. So is it a marketing scam copied from Deere? I don't know, I'm not an engineer. I have seen the difference in performance between the two in cold temps. GST's do take longer with UDT, HST's don't return to neutral as fast when cold. (not that HST pedal return performance is that good to begin with, with kubotas, but that's a whole nother can of worms). As far as getting different and conflicting answers from different dealers? I think the right answer is: If you're still under warranty use what Kubota tells you to use. (occasionally the Kubota rep asks for an oil sample)
After that I think the main concern is make sure your machine is warmed up good before you really start workin' it.

Roy · Mar 16, 2001

Jon; Your logic is not flawed, if and only if Super-UDT is readily available. For many of us, it is not. It has to be ordered. So, the question comes down to, is the eventual cost (pain factor of ordering, paying more, and waiting) worth the risk?

Roy

Anonymous Poster · Mar 16, 2001

Jon,

I can see your logic, however with a machine holding 10 gallons it adds up, oil changes are not at 1000 hours they are more like 400. And as for using the best, I have always been under the impression that length of the oil being in the crankcase is as bad as usage when you are talking years. That's got be a lot of condensation. All the things I've read say never leave oil in anything past 2-3 years no matter what. (feel free to disagree).

And I am in no way a tightwad or a maintenance skimper, I have my own hoist at home! What kind of maniacal devotion does that suggest?

What sticks in my craw is not the money, it is the fact that KUBOTA'S OWN DEALERS say this Super UDT is a waste. If they all said it's the cat's meow I'd being using 30 year old wine in the sump. They don't. (except for cold areas)

Kubota mech's post on his experience is right on the money and well written, at least from my talks with dealers. If I had a sit outside tractor or lived where it was cold I'd definitely be going "super" or true synthetic. That's the other thing that bugs me, everything else has a commercial equivalent, the "super" has no specs and no equivalent.

I'm ready to listen to the benefits of technology, even though I do still use one of those oil cans that you push on the bottom of to make oil come out!

del

DarinRay · Mar 16, 2001

del,

This is way off the topic but I need to ask. Please,,,I'm nosy! I have read many posts posted by Del and am just wondering why you haven't registered or if you are registered under a different name? I will sometimes enjoy looking at a persons profile just for the heck of it. Oh well.....

On the topic FYI ----Just changed all the fluids in my L35 and used the UDT just because my local dealer only has this and doesn't carry the Super.....Like was mentioned earlier I get some time to do something and I can't just wait for oil to come in a day or two or weeks maybe next time I will order it way in advance just to make sure it's there when the time comes.

Darin

JonSpinosa · Mar 17, 2001

Hi guys, When I purchased my new L35 my dealer instructed me to use the super UDT. He gave me this advice based upon some bad experiences he had on people trying to save money by using UDT fluid. Of course I do live in Syracuse, New York where it can be very cold.
Again, my L35 cost $34,000 I am not going to sacrifice my investment for an extra $60.00 over the life of a hydraulic oil change.

campster · Mar 17, 2001

Re: Kubota brand oil

Is there some reason not to use an aftermarket oil or fluid?

Thomas · Mar 18, 2001

Re: Kubota brand oil

Viscosity and warranty seem to be the dealer reason also filters.
Today tractors are a tad more complex than yesterday tractors,and by that I mean the old cast iron engine which 10W-40 fluid was used.
Back than if you had 3qts of Shell oil and needed one more qt you could have use Mobil if need be.
Most manuals have a section on lubricant specificatios w/guide line on what to use plus other makers w/brand names...Remember the old Fram tv ad..."You can pay me now or pay me later"...Well its true. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

gordon · Mar 18, 2001

Thanks for the insight!!!
Nothing better to hear it from the one who knows best---the one pulling the wrenches on them for a living./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

Thomas · Mar 18, 2001

Snell,
After having a chat w/couple of long time Kubota techs about what fluid I should use,they agree on UDT for the protection also performance in this region on a B7100HST.
They also stated let the tractor warm up before useing for proper operations,and on sub zero days use the heater block.
Since they know more than I ever will and yet to have any problems,I shall leave well enough alone...if it broken don't mess w/it...one of my rules. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
But you still have me wondering. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif