Buying Advice Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions

   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #11  
Thanks very much for the real world feedback John. My worry is that the 5045 is only rated 37 pto hp and the 5055 45 pto hp. Sounds like both might be lagging hp wise. I'm pretty sure the weight would be possible.
I just looked at the specs for my MX8 "rotary cutter" and it specifies a minimum of 40 HP at the PTO for a pull and a minimum of 50 HP for a 3 point lift (1600 pounds.) You should look for a minimum of 60 HP at the PTO and 1800-2000 pound 3 point lift.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #12  
The 3 cylinder Deere 5Es are notably larger than the Kubota M5660SU, they are about the same size as a Kubota M6060/M7060 but are far heavier. A 5045E MFWD's ship weight is 5919 pounds while the M5660SU weighs 4189 lb and the M6060/7060 weigh 5090 lb. The Deere's loaders are stronger as well, the 520M used on the MFWD 5Es can lift about as much weight to full height as the Kubotas' LA1154s can lift to their shorter "power" position. They are also correspondingly less maneuverable. The Deere 5E is the largest tractor you'll find in the non-deluxe 50-75 hp range and the M5660SU is about the smallest. For reference, the open station non-deluxe CNH units (NH Workmaster 50/60/70 aka CaseIH Farmall 50A/60A/70A) are physically a smidge larger than the M5560SU but weigh about as much as the M6060/M7060. Bottom line, if you want a smaller, lighter, more maneuverable tractor get the Kubota, if you want a larger tractor get the Deere.

Both machines are a little different than the other machines in their respective manufacturers' lineups. All Deere 5E 3 cyl tractors are the same size, can be had with the same size tires, use the same loaders, and use the same basic engine but the 5045E is the oddball as it is only available in an open station with the 9/3 TSS transmission. The other 5E 3 cyl units (5055E/5065E/5075E) can be had with a cab and/or the 12/12 PowerReverser. The M5660SU is somewhat smaller than the M6060 and M7060 with a shorter wheelbase, smaller tires, weighs about 900 pounds less, and has the smaller 2.4 L engine from the L and MX line vs. the 3.3 L four in the M6060/M7060. It is also open station only. It has the same 8/8 hydraulic reverser as the M6060/standard M7060 and uses the same loader as the M6060/M7060.

I've run both of the Deere transmissions. Both have been around since the 1990s and have been solid units in our service. The 9x3 TSS is a very traditional gear transmission with synchronized in-range gear shifting and a mechanically clutched independent PTO. We've done a lot of loader work with a tractor with that transmission and I didn't have any trouble. You do have fewer reverse gears, but unless you're backing up with mower, you can always throttle up or down to change your travel speed to compensate for the smaller number of reverse gears. The PowerReverser is a slick transmission but probably the largest advantage of it is that it's a 12 speed vs. a 9 speed of the TSS and you get a better selection of gears for field work (C range in either is pretty much just limited to road usage.) The PowerReverser's clutch pack isn't directly clutched by your foot like the TSS's clutch plate is so clutch engagement in the PowerReverser is a little grabbier in my opinion.

A 5045E is rated at 50 engine HP and 37 PTO HP. I suspect the tractor actually makes about 44 PTO HP and possibly more. Nebraska didn't test the 5045E but they did test the others in that line, they perform PTO dyno tests, check hydraulic performance, and 3 point hitch performance. The 73 rated engine HP and 57 rated PTO HP 5075E put out 64 HP at the PTO. You can guarantee the 5075E doesn't make more than 75 engine HP as the EPA would thus require it to use DEF, so I assume the 73 engine HP is accurate. 64 PTO HP is a 14% driveline loss, and this is very close to the results Nebraska got for the other three units- the 5056E's 67 HP engine netted 60 PTO HP, and the 5055E's 59 HP engine gave 51 HP at the PTO. That would put the 5045E at 44 PTO HP if the engine isn't under-rated, and more if it is. It may very well be under-rated as the same basic 2.9 L 3 cyl engine in that tractor has been used since the 1970s and was rated at 55 HP naturally aspirated and 65-70 HP with a turbo before Tier IV. The 5045E has this engine with a turbo, rated at 50 HP. Either Deere significantly under-fueled this engine to cripple it to 50 HP or it makes more than 50 HP.

Our experience with an 8' mower is with a pull type being used with a 65 (tested) PTO HP JD 5083E and a six-cylinder New Holland with in excess of 100 PTO HP. The only time the 5083E knew it was back there was if the mower scalped and hit a dirt mound. It would lug the engine but didn't stall it. PTO was run in standard mode. The NH being run in economy PTO mode didn't know the mower was back there at all. One of my neighbors has a cabbed 5220 which is directly in between the 5045E and 5055E in terms of power with an 8' 3 point Rhino mower and it did fine doing his once-per-year field mowing. I would expect the 5045E to do okay cutting grass with an 8 footer. Worst you do is take a narrower pass or slow down. The 5E is a lot larger tractor than the 4066 mentioned above and I wouldn't put a ~1600 pound 3 point MX8 on a 4 series tractor, they are only about 3800 pounds. I would put one on a 5E though. Deere's PTO HP requirements being different for lift (full 3 point mount) vs. semi-mount or pull type is mainly to discourage somebody from putting a big heavy full 3 point mount mower on too small of a tractor. If you want to be specific, Deere publishes implement codes for its implements and tractors that let you know if the 3 point implement is too heavy for the tractor. Deere's literature says the full 3 point MX8 is fine for any MFWD 3 cyl 5E with enough ballast (e.g. leave your loader on or use a bunch of suitcase weights), but the MX10 is too heavy, and the 3 point MX8 is too heavy for a 4 series tractor.

If you want the Deere 5055E, look for a used one with a few hundred hours. There are bunches of <5 year old 5045E-5075E tractors with <500 hours for sale. Typically these list at $30-32k for an MFWD unit with the 520M loader and a PowerReverser transmission, you can probably talk them down a little more. Prices on the 5055-5075 MFWD units are typically pretty similar regardless of power, same with any of the 2wd units. If I were you, I'd probably look at a lightly used (<1000 hour) 5065E or 5075E with your choice of transmission and know you have plenty of power for that 8' mower. I wouldn't worry about the economy PTO unless you intend to use it frequently with something really light like a broadcast spreader or a 5' cutter.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Lots of great information here guys, I really appreciate it. I was skeptical of the 37 PTO hp as well, that's a pretty sizable displacement engine in there. And I hear you on looking for a larger used machine but everything I have seen locally in the N. Florida and S. Georgia area has either been too close to new money or beat to heck already, even w/ fairly low hours but I'm keeping my eyes open.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Well, an update. I went and operated the Kubota another time. It certainly feels like a more maneuverable machine. I'm not really operating in any tight areas but that is always a plus if you are not sacrificing a lot of other things in exchange. Price at 32,800 is about the lowest I can find for this model in my area.

JD dealer locally does not have a 45 or 55 and the soonest they can get a 55 is mid October range which surprised me. However based on this I guess they were a bit more negotiable and came down to 35 for a 5055 with the 520 loader and 12/12 pwr rev. I'm leaning away from the 45 for the hp and even if I can live with the 9/3 it's obviously not the most ideal and if it ever were to come down to resale I'm sure that wouldn't help either. I'm going to make one more trip to a dealer further away that does have a 45 and verify once more about the transmission and also whether I find the 5 series to be too unhandy to maneuver around since that was pointed out several times by users on this forum compared to the Kubota. It's certainly a lot bigger than the 4300 I'm used to!

So basically I have narrowed it down to:
Kubota 5660
-Seems like it will be reliable
-Good power
-Comfortable for me to operate
-Good pricing
-Easy to find a root rake attachment (not a big deal but I have been looking quite a bit and for the Deere it looks like either I get a simple one and an SSQA adapter, make my own adapter or have to go to a more expensive grapple type which they do make with the Deere quick attach)

Deere 5055
-Other than hp seems like a more powerful/beefier machine
-5 vs 3 year powertrain warranty
-about $2200 more now which I could live with

Thanks again to everyone that has provided input and if there are any last words of wisdom before I take the plunge I'm all ears. I'm pretty sure I really can't go wrong with either one of these machines.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #15  
SNIP
for the Deere it looks like either I get a simple one and an SSQA adapter, make my own adapter or have to go to a more expensive grapple type which they do make with the Deere quick attach)
SNIP
Thanks again to everyone that has provided input and if there are any last words of wisdom before I take the plunge I'm all ears. I'm pretty sure I really can't go wrong with either one of these machines.

I'd agree. Hard to go far wrong with JD or Kubota. BTW, if you go Deere do whatever is necessary to get the SSQA as close to the front of the FEL as possible. Most of the world uses SSQA.
rScotty
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #16  
Well, an update. I went and operated the Kubota another time. It certainly feels like a more maneuverable machine. I'm not really operating in any tight areas but that is always a plus if you are not sacrificing a lot of other things in exchange. Price at 32,800 is about the lowest I can find for this model in my area.

JD dealer locally does not have a 45 or 55 and the soonest they can get a 55 is mid October range which surprised me. However based on this I guess they were a bit more negotiable and came down to 35 for a 5055 with the 520 loader and 12/12 pwr rev. I'm leaning away from the 45 for the hp and even if I can live with the 9/3 it's obviously not the most ideal and if it ever were to come down to resale I'm sure that wouldn't help either. I'm going to make one more trip to a dealer further away that does have a 45 and verify once more about the transmission and also whether I find the 5 series to be too unhandy to maneuver around since that was pointed out several times by users on this forum compared to the Kubota. It's certainly a lot bigger than the 4300 I'm used to!

So basically I have narrowed it down to:
Kubota 5660
-Seems like it will be reliable
-Good power
-Comfortable for me to operate
-Good pricing
-Easy to find a root rake attachment (not a big deal but I have been looking quite a bit and for the Deere it looks like either I get a simple one and an SSQA adapter, make my own adapter or have to go to a more expensive grapple type which they do make with the Deere quick attach)
.

When I bought my 5055e, I was able to get it with a Deere quick attach, Global, or SSQA.
I got the SSQA.
 

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   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #17  
Mike, I very recently looked at these exact two tractors. Like you, I noticed the considerable drop in PTO with the Deere compared to the Kubota. My understanding is that it involves the efficiency of the drive train and obviously the Kubota is more efficient. The lost PTO power may not matter to your needs, but it is something I took into consideration. Also, I was quoted just over $33k for the M5660 with loader, so I feel the quote you received under $33k is a great one.

Ultimately, I went with the Kubota, but I moved up to the next size M60 series for the extra hp and weight. It was "only" a few thousand dollars more, but an investment I'm very comfortable with. Also, for me, I felt that the Kubota dealer would give me way better customer service over the corporate style John Deere. I suggest you consider dealer availability and customer service in your decision as well.

Best of luck in your decision!
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #18  
I have only owned one JD tractor a 5525M. Had the power reverser with 12/12 gears due to 3 ranges. It worked great with fel. I got to where for my need moving was done in B range and loading dropped to A (the lowest any way) range and flipped on the four wheel drive. Sold the tractor with my retiring from farming only two months back. Really miss that tractor. Very comfortable, stable and as you have said just seems to be very solid.

When looking to get a smaller retirement tractor looked at the JD 4066 with cab and Kubota L6060 with cab. Biggest reason I did not buy the JD was the size of the cab door as there was no side window. Have near 100 hours on the Kubota L6060 and it has performed well...however, if I were buying today would sure look more carefully at the JD. I know these are not as large frame as you are looking at and I know Kubota reasonable well, this is my third Pumpkin. Have had my M6800 base tractor for sale for about two months now on friends tractor lot. Not one person has even made an offer on it. I never used a JD with the 9/3 transmission but understood it was not built for the farmer but the weekend person. About exact words told me by a JD salesman when I looked for a JD before I bought the M6800. No idea on the Kubota you are considering but if getting rear remote try the control. On my L6060 they feel like toys. My M6800 and JD valves felt much alike and were able to do fine tuning on the M6800 and JD but not on my L6060.

Be sure you try the driving each tractor and depending on your height and weight believe JD will have stronger seat (may not be issue once you leave the L model which is reported with issues even in few threads here and elsewhere). Close your eyes on each and see if the locations of the levers and controls make sense to you.

Bottom line you probably will be fine with either. Get the one you will enjoy the most and ok, be most happy to brag on.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Again, I appreciate all the great input. On the dealer note, that is a very good point but in my case its not that clear cut. My local Kubota dealer is over $2k more on the price for the M5660 so I would be buying from a larger volume dealer farther away. If the price was with $500 or so I would definitely stick to local but this is too much of a difference. So in that case, I'm not sure how helpful they will be for service/warranty. The Deere would be from the local dealer but as you say they are an Ag-Pro large scale group type, although I have been there occasionaly for repairs with my other machine and have always had good results.

And I will inquire about the SSQA if I go the Deere route.
 
   / Kubota M5660 JD 5045 Been Covered Before But Have Some Specific Questions #20  
I’m not sure of implements you will by but the JD quick connect is normally fine. You can get the JD set up on most implements but usually for an up charge. I have seen grapples charge $100 for the JD setup. The JD setup is simpler and adds no loss in lift capacity but on larger machine like you are looking at it is less critical. If you are looking at getting a lot of implements or already have a lot in SSQA implements than an a SSQA might be more important.
 

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