KOITI CK20S HST REAL PROBLEMS

[BILLBURN]

KOITI CK20S HST REAL PROBLEMS
I HAVE A Kubota 3400 HST - IT'S BEEN A GOOD TRACTOR JUST SLIGHTLY UNDERBUILT FOR WHAT I DO - MY FRIEND WANTED A TRACTOR FOR HIS ACREAGE AND I RELAYED MY THOUGHTS ON THE KUBOTA - AND RECOMMENDED A KOITI AS I FELT THEY WERE BUILT BETTER - WELL HE BOUGHT A CK20S HST - WITH 25 HRS ON THE MACHINE THE HYDRAULIC PUMP SEIZED UP - UNDER WARRANTY THE DEALER REPLACES THE PUMP - AT 80 HRS THE HYD PUMP SEIZES AGAIN - DEALER REPLACES PUMP TO THE TUNE OF 6800.00 $ AS THEY CLAIMED THE PUMP HAD DAMAGED OTHER PARTS IN THE ACT OF SEIZING - STILL UNDER WARRANTY -- NOW WITH 160 HRS ON THE MACHINE THE PUMP SEIZES ONCE MORE - EVEN BEING UNDER WARRANTY THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE A REAL ISSUE WITH KOITI - HAS ANYONE HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS????? - THE DEALERS REP THAT SHOWED UP THE ANALYZE THE PROBLEM SAID THAT THIS SERIES OF TRACTOR HAS A KNOWN MANUFACTURERS DEFECT IN THE PUMP - THEY KNOW ABOUT IT AND A WORKING ON A FIX - TILL THE FIX DOES COME FROM KOITI THEY JUST HAVE TO REPLACE PUMPS - I JUST CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND WHAT HAPPENS IF THE FIX DOES NOT COME AND THE WARRANTY RUNS OUT - OUCH WHAT A LEMON ANYONE THAT HAS HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM COULD YOU E-MAIL ME AT -
mooneyes53@gmail.com
PS: BEING A ONE FINGER TYPER I STICK TO THE UPPER CASE - IT'S JUST EASIER - NOT YELLING AND NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS ( YELLING ) JUST TO OLD TO ADAPT TO USING THE TWO CASES

 

[cletus99]

I posted the info below on your other thread. Reposting here just in case you didn't see it. When you type in all caps it is concidered yelling. Not a big deal, just very hard to read. I think it would be better if you just typed in all lower case instead, just use punctuation. It would probably be easier to read. hope you get an answer to your question soon. Also :welcome: Thanks:

Yes please don't type in all caps. It makes it very difficult to read. I believe you typed your email address wrong too. Shouldn't it be gmail.com and not gmasil.com. Just didn't want anyone to have problems emailing you.

 

[kiotiken]

Wow, that sucks for your friend. I've read a lot of threads on TBN over the years and I've never heard a seized hydraulic pump on any Kioti let alone a CK20. My advice to your friend would be to have it fixed and RUN (yes I'm yelling that ). I had what I considered a lemon CK30. It never actually broke to the point it left me stranded, but was a constant disappointment. I traded to a DK45 and after owning it the same amount of time, have no issues with it. I'd see what Kioti and the dealer would do to get him out of that tractor and into another one.

 

[BILLBURN]

Thanks for the input - the dealer actually did make him an offer to dump it - the deal he offered was - they would for 20,000.00 and his 150+ hr ck20s hst they would trade him up to a ck27 hst - what a deal " not " as the ck27 new only runs around 18,000.00 - my opion was they were trying to get out of a bad deal with the hope he'd bite on this super deal they were giving him - i told him to get it done up on the warranty and sell it quick - just not sure what he should get to replace it - my 3400 kubota has 690 hrs on it and to this point it's been trouble free - it's used most every day in our landscape business - it's a great machine for easy access around new building sites as it fits through a 5ft 4in opening - thanks for the response Bill

 

[cletus99]

What about having it fixed then trading it in on a different make tractor, like a Kubota?

 

[kiotiken]

Well, I'd tell him to look at it in pieces. Ask the dealer what he's getting for a trade for the CK20 and compare that to the price he paid for it. Next I would ask to see the selling price of the CK27. Dealers of all kinds always want to give you one tidy little number and it usually means you're getting screwed. You need to look at each part to see if one (or both) are out of line. I would personally be trying to get the Kioti sales rep involved and push my case that there's a major issue with the tractor and that is the only real reason he want to make a trade. I got 94% on my CK30 after 1 year and 135 hrs, I would expect this dealer and/or Kioti to work something out to be fair in a difficult situation. My experience working directly with Kioti is they were very fair (completely unrelated to my trade or what I got for it).

If he was going to trade, I'd personally lean to the CK30. It's almost the same price and identical in every way with a few extra hp. They are much heavier than your L3400 and it's a lot of tractor for 27 hp. Personally, I think the CK35 is the way to go for that frame, but at that point you're pretty close to a DK 40 in price.

 

[Striker3636]

700+ hours on my CK20HST, zero problems so far.

 

[Gittyup]

Yeah I think he just got a lemon. Ask for another ck20. Hundreds in use with no issues.

 

[BILLBURN]

Yeah I think he just got a lemon. Ask for another ck20. Hundreds in use with no issues.

Thanks Gitty -- I really do think there is something out of alignment with his tractor - something had to have gotten bent twisted or a bushing damaged during the first pump failure - as to have three pumps go is more than a coincidence , you just don't get three bad pumps unless you're the most unlucky beggar in the world -

 

[BILLBURN]

Thanks - kiotiken - this whole thing with the dealer is just nuts - my advice to him is get the darned thing repaired on warranty and sell it quick - take what you can that is fair and cut your losses before the warranty runs out - then he can try a bigger model - at this time he's a tad gun shy of kioti though - the ck30 being heavier to me and my uses is not a real benefit though as the kubota 3400 has a footprint of 2.5 lbs per sq in which allows us to drive over a finished lawn even with the front bucket loaded and not damage the lawn - In his position he uses it in his organic gardens and a heavier machine in our damp climate here on Vancouver Island would turn things into a bit of a mud groove - the ck20 was ideal for him weight wise - just that it's turned into a nightmare for him - thanks for the input - Bill
ps: does anyone know if the remainder of a warranty in a sale istransferable ?

 

[Baby Grand]

Seize a hydraulic pump and there's a chance you'll send metal particles throughout the system.
Depends on how the filtration system is set up.
Very hard to get all that crud 100% out of the system.
This can cause recurring problems.
Some (biased) background info:
Hydrostatic failure traced to contamination | Maintenance content from Hydraulics & Pneumatics

 

[BILLBURN]

Thanks - baby grand --- i was there when they replaced the first pump they did a very good job of flushing the system - but as you say it does not take much of that grinding compound left behind to repeat the past performance -

 

[Gittyup]

I've been religiously reading the kioti forums since 2006. I can only recall one other HST problem like this on a ck20. I think it turned out to be some sort of blockage in the tranny, foreign material somehow introduced during mfg. if the ck20 is the right tractor I'd simply be pushing for a new ck20. Many many happy ck20 owners out there. Nothing like it until the new mahindras maxs came along.

 

[VictorW]

A member posted that it must be a lemon. Wouldn't the lemon law apply to tractors as it does for cars and trucks with three tries for the same problem and then they must take it back if not repaired and give you another one? I think I would do some checking. 20K plus his trade-in is a joke. The CK27 doesn't even cost that much.

 

[BleedingOrange]

I,ve got a question for all you guys that are saying fix it, and sell it ?
Would you really feel good about selling it to someone, knowing the reocurring issues ?
Worst case, make sure you aren,t getting taken by the dealer, but trade it back into them, and let them worry about how they are really going to solve this ongoing problem.
Escalte this problem up the ladder, maybe they can buy it back from you, and use it for parts.

 

[Dingo Man]

Thanks - kiotiken - this whole thing with the dealer is just nuts - my advice to him is get the darned thing repaired on warranty and sell it quick - take what you can that is fair and cut your losses before the warranty runs out - then he can try a bigger model - at this time he's a tad gun shy of kioti though - the ck30 being heavier to me and my uses is not a real benefit though as the kubota 3400 has a footprint of 2.5 lbs per sq in which allows us to drive over a finished lawn even with the front bucket loaded and not damage the lawn - In his position he uses it in his organic gardens and a heavier machine in our damp climate here on Vancouver Island would turn things into a bit of a mud groove - the ck20 was ideal for him weight wise - just that it's turned into a nightmare for him - thanks for the input - Bill
ps: does anyone know if the remainder of a warranty in a sale istransferable ?

I agree with getting rid of it once fixed, but I personally would have a hard time selling something like that to a private party knowing full well it will probably crap out again costing them money. The dealer and Kioti themselves should have to obsorb the loss on this and treat your friend right.

Just curious does your friend keep a good eye on his hydraulic fluid levels? Just thinking there may be a leak somewhere running it dry.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Just a ignorant curiosity question: which hydraulic pump is this? Transmission, steering, or main (e.g. loader) hydraulics?

Opinion: Unless this is a weird orphan tractor that very few others on this site own, there is no design defect with the pump. Otherwise we'd be hearing about it a lot from other owners who post here. If there is no design problem, the dealer never really fixed the tractor correctly (any of the three times he tried) and the "dealer's rep??" is full of it.

Was this "dealer's rep" an actual Kioti factory rep? Has the owner tried contacting Kioti in NC directly about this alleged design defect? This may be possible now that Connie is gone. Also recommend he keep documentation of all previous repair attempts. Does your state have things like consumer advocates you can appeal to? This has all the hallmarks of a lemon.

 

[Dingo Man]

Just a ignorant curiosity question: which hydraulic pump is this? Transmission, steering, or main (e.g. loader) hydraulics?

Opinion: Unless this is a weird orphan tractor that very few others on this site own, there is no design defect with the pump. Otherwise we'd be hearing about it a lot from other owners who post here. If there is no design problem, the dealer never really fixed the tractor correctly (any of the three times he tried) and the "dealer's rep??" is full of it.

Was this "dealer's rep" an actual Kioti factory rep? Has the owner tried contacting Kioti in NC directly about this alleged design defect? This may be possible now that Connie is gone. Also recommend he keep documentation of all previous repair attempts. Does your state have things like consumer advocates you can appeal to? This has all the hallmarks of a lemon.

Connie is gone! Amen

 

[Coyote machine]

Connie is gone! Amen

She was the anti-c@H^r%i*s#T of all things Kioti.

 

[brkdrvr]

Hello, You are not alone. I just saw your post while looking for a solution to my 8year old CK20 HST's hydraulic issues. I have also had the hydraulic pump seize and brake the camshaft @ 450 hours, I was shocked when the dealer warranted out the problem and fixed it ( about 1 1/2 years ago). I am now stuck in my driveway after back bladeing snow for several hrs I put the bucket on and started moving snow with it, noticed the steering getting difficult and stopped to check hydraulic fluid & found it just touching dipstick (hydraulic cooler started leaking right after service work was done, tiny pin hole w/just enough fluid to attract dirt, cleaned cooler and added pint of fluid every 10-30 hrs when needed). Added fluid and restarted machine now bucket has almost no hydraulics and back blade will not move. Called dealer he offers no ideas just wants to see machine.... to make smoe $$$$$$$$$$$$$ of me or Kioti. Last time tractor smoked like a pig due to hydraulic fluid getting in the diesel & burning not happening this time. Mike