Kioti Warranty Concerns

[ovrszd]

I bought due to value.
I was looking at a Kioti DK 35 and the Kubota models were the L3010 and L3410.
The fit/finish/quality looked every bit as good to me on the Kioti DK as the Kubota models I was comparing.
The DK 35 included rear remotes, extendable sway bars, extendable lower link arms, draft control and mid PTO (all were options on the 3010/3410).
And the price was still lower than the Kubota models even after I added the optional SSQA and heavy duty bucket.
That was 22 years ago and my Kioti has been an excellent tractor.
If I had it to do all over again I would pick the same machine

So it was cheaper? Isn't that what Bill said?

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well, duh. They make them in China to sell in China.

Well... that's also what Kioti does, but yet you claim they make them in China to sell here, when they are actually made and assembled in S. Korea then broken back down to ship to the US where they are reassembled.

This is also what happens to half of everything Kubota sells in the US, as only half of what Kubuta sells in the US is actually 'made or assembled' here.

The 2 companies are not that different.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

If you could gather all of the product data on every brand of tractor, then analyze the good against the bad for reliability, quality, support, availability, etc., you would find the brands listed in order of preference. Who would be in the top three?

Gathering the product data is the major challenge for every consumer researching this industry. It's very difficult to do as this industry does not work with any consumer advocate groups such as consumer reports or J.D Power & Associates. So what were all left with is mostly anecdotal material that is gathered and collected from other peoples experience with the brand. And then that evidence is often disregarded and not considered very reliable by a lot of the community here. So I get what you're saying about playing the "odds" and think that is well said but from a research standpoint it's much harder to do then said. If you have a process for doing this I welcome you to share it with our community as it would only advance our understanding and ability to be better shoppers in this industry.

 

[DK35vince]

Well, duh. They make them in China to sell in China.

Well, duh. Kioti does the same thing

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

So it was cheaper? Isn't that what Bill said?

Kioti/Daedong is filling the gap created by the other brands in their product line up. For example, Kioti has positioned it's CK10SE series to fill the gap between Kubota's Stand L and Grand L series, Deere's 3E and 3R series and Agco/Massey Ferguson's 1800E and 1800M series.

I will add in that the problem you find with the established brands is there is no middle of the road options. You either have to choose between the Tercel or the Avalon they don't give you a Camry option which is what most buyers want. The industry as a whole forces you to take more value then you want or give up more value then you want. So Kioti is positioning itself to solve that disparity that exists in the industry.

 

[IndyJay]

There was a guy where I used to work we called "Topper'... No matter what you had, he had one that was better. It was really that bad that he earned that nickname over many years of bragging that no matter what, his was better than anybody else's.

There was finally a time where someone called him out on it. This was over 30 years ago so I forget the specific item, but someone had recently made a purchase that turns out that Topper also had, but was better. His was such and such manufacturer, "so is mine"... "yeah, but mine is such and such model"... "so is mine". Finally Topper asked what he paid for his. He answered with the purchase price, and Topper said, "Well there you go... I paid (~10% more) for mine, so mine is better!"

Yep, my Kioti was ~ $10,000 cheaper than the Kubota and Massey models that I looked at. That doen't make it any less the machine than more expensive machines that I shopped over several months. Let the fanboys keep harping on how "their's is better because". I just wonder what they are basing that on. How many Kioti's have they seriously looked at or driven?

But hey, their's cost more, must be better, right?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

There was a guy where I used to work we called "Topper'... No matter what you had, he had one that was better. It was really that bad that he earned that nickname over many years of bragging that no matter what, his was better than anybody else's.

There was finally a time where someone called him out on it. This was over 30 years ago so I forget the specific item, but someone had recently made a purchase that turns out that Topper also had, but was better. His was such and such manufacturer, "so is mine"... "yeah, but mine is such and such model"... "so is mine". Finally Topper asked what he paid for his. He answered with the purchase price, and Topper said, "Well there you go... I paid (~10% more) for mine, so mine is better!"

Lmao Omg there is a guy I know that is just like like that! It doesn't matter what you tell him that you have or has happened to you he will always have to one up you to make your _(life experience, product, windfall, hardship, opportunity, whatever...) seem pitiful in comparison to his version of it. I'm going to use that name for him now, "Topper"

Yep, my Kioti was ~ $10,000 cheaper than the Kubota and Massey models that I looked at. That doen't make it any less the machine than more expensive machines that I shopped over several months. Let the fanboys keep harping on how "their's is better because". I just wonder what they are basing that on. How many Kioti's have they seriously looked at or driven?

But hey, their's cost more, must be better, right?

I have a friend that plays and teaches guitar professionally and one day when we were in his tech room shootin the breeze he said something to me that I will never forget. He said any guitar luthier can build a good playing and sounding guitar for a big, expensive price but try to build one that plays as good and sounds as good for significantly less. That's the challenge.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Not sure how old you are, I'm 70, I can clearly remember when Kubota was thought of as a cheap Japanese brand that couldn't be relied on to perform reliably. They overcame that with quality reliable product.

And that is where I am of the opinion that they should not have had the engineering failures that they have had given the maturity of the brand and product lines. If they were a startup or new comer it would be suspected but given their lengthy history in the business and the North American market it's not excusable.

 

[tractortroof]

There was a guy where I used to work we called "Topper'... No matter what you had, he had one that was better. It was really that bad that he earned that nickname over many years of bragging that no matter what, his was better than anybody else's.

There was finally a time where someone called him out on it. This was over 30 years ago so I forget the specific item, but someone had recently made a purchase that turns out that Topper also had, but was better. His was such and such manufacturer, "so is mine"... "yeah, but mine is such and such model"... "so is mine". Finally Topper asked what he paid for his. He answered with the purchase price, and Topper said, "Well there you go... I paid (~10% more) for mine, so mine is better!"

Yep, my Kioti was ~ $10,000 cheaper than the Kubota and Massey models that I looked at. That doen't make it any less the machine than more expensive machines that I shopped over several months. Let the fanboys keep harping on how "their's is better because". I just wonder what they are basing that on. How many Kioti's have they seriously looked at or driven?

But hey, their's cost more, must be better, right?

I went with Kubota instead of Kioti because of online reputation. There are more complaints about Kioti.

The web can be cleaned by an effective reputation team, I know this is true in the hvac marketplace

 

[ovrszd]

Gathering the product data is the major challenge for every consumer researching this industry. It's very difficult to do as this industry does not work with any consumer advocate groups such as consumer reports or J.D Power & Associates. So what were all left with is mostly anecdotal material that is gathered and collected from other peoples experience with the brand. And then that evidence is often disregarded and not considered very reliable by a lot of the community here. So I get what you're saying about playing the "odds" and think that is well said but from a research standpoint it's much harder to do then said. If you have a process for doing this I welcome you to share it with our community as it would only advance our understanding and ability to be better shoppers in this industry.

Wow, did you type that all in one breath???

You didn't answer my question??

 

[ovrszd]

Kioti/Daedong is filling the gap created by the other brands in their product line up. For example, Kioti has positioned it's CK10SE series to fill the gap between Kubota's Stand L and Grand L series, Deere's 3E and 3R series and Agco/Massey Ferguson's 1800E and 1800M series.

I will add in that the problem you find with the established brands is there is no middle of the road options. You either have to choose between the Tercel or the Avalon they don't give you a Camry option which is what most buyers want. The industry as a whole forces you to take more value then you want or give up more value then you want. So Kioti is positioning itself to solve that disparity that exists in the industry.

Again, you didn't answer my question?

 

[ovrszd]

I have a friend that plays and teaches guitar professionally and one day when we were in his tech room shootin the breeze he said something to me that I will never forget. He said any guitar luthier can build a good playing and sounding guitar for a big, expensive price but try to build one that plays as good and sounds as good for significantly less. That's the challenge.

Yeah, that's the "odds" thing I was talking about.

 

[ovrszd]

And that is where I am of the opinion that they should not have had the engineering failures that they have had given the maturity of the brand and product lines. If they were a startup or new comer it would be suspected but given their lengthy history in the business and the North American market it's not excusable.

Name me one manufacturer that doesn't have occasional issues?

I just heard on the radio yesterday that Ford is recalling 150,000 F150 pickups because of wiring issue. How dare they!!!! Been manufacturing autos for 100 years!!!! Surely they shouldn't have engineering failures like that!!!!

 

[5030]

Kubota ships everything made over there, completely assembled (minus the wheels and tires which are added here), always has, Accessories like loaders are built here. The bigger tractors are loaded in containers minus the wheels (which are shipped with them) and added by the receiving dealer.

 

[5030]

difting a bit from the OP's post. Never had a warranty issue with any Kubota I've owned and I'm on my 11th and 12th units.

 

[ultrarunner]

Slim Pickens when it comes to any Dealers here unless CAT, Yellow Deere and Case.

Originally wanted Deere but nothing to see and weeks to get a return call.

Read about Kubota here on TBN and now have 3 and not one warranty issue.

 

[orangetree]

I would have addressed it with the dealer, up to the owner. If I still didn't get satisfaction, I would go to court. As many have said, this is not a problem for the manufacturer, except maybe after the fact. Might want them to know some dealer cannot put their units together.

I see a lot of times here where people go directly to a manufacturer to solve problems. There are times where that is appropriate, but usually it is better to work with the retail management.

He certainly should have NOT gone to the mfg first, and should have pressed the dealer responsible hard, all the way up to the ownership as you say. Including making clear that he will seek resolution even if it means the courts.

However, i don't see it as unreasonable to go to the manufacture after failing to get resolution, but before filing suit. The manufacturer SHOULD be his friend here, assuming he is coming to them from a reasonable perspective.

They are clearly not obligated to do anything - but they also have a clear vested interest in happy, honestly-treated customers. Having dealt with a similar problem in a different industry - when approached politely but forcefully with the facts of the situation, the mfg did "inform" the dealer that they "would" make it right for me, or there would be some sort of repercussion in their relationship.

The dealer came around, fixed it for me, end of story. I didn't have to spend 10's (or more) hours taking them to court. (notably, presumably here the actual 'damage' would fall under the small-claims limit - so he can do it without thousands to an attorney; but not without a LOT of time invested)

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Again, you didn't answer my question?

Richard your question was originally aimed at Vince but I chimed in to give my perspective on how Kioti is positioning itself as a manufacturer within the industry which was my answer to your question. However, to more directly answer your question I say it depends on who you ask. Is Kioti cheaper or is Kubota and Deere just over priced? If you ask me, I think Kioti tractors are priced just right for what you get and the inconveniences that go along with doing business with them. On the other hand I think Kubota is now way overpriced for what you get and not in line with how they have historically positioned themselves and Deere has priced itself out of the market.
So now that I have made my position clear about this I would like to hear you answer your own question.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

He certainly should have NOT gone to the mfg first, and should have pressed the dealer responsible hard, all the way up to the ownership as you say. Including making clear that he will seek resolution even if it means the courts.

However, i don't see it as unreasonable to go to the manufacture after failing to get resolution, but before filing suit. The manufacturer SHOULD be his friend here, assuming he is coming to them from a reasonable perspective.

They are clearly not obligated to do anything - but they also have a clear vested interest in happy, honestly-treated customers. Having dealt with a similar problem in a different industry - when approached politely but forcefully with the facts of the situation, the mfg did "inform" the dealer that they "would" make it right for me, or there would be some sort of repercussion in their relationship.

The dealer came around, fixed it for me, end of story. I didn't have to spend 10's (or more) hours taking them to court. (notably, presumably here the actual 'damage' would fall under the small-claims limit - so he can do it without thousands to an attorney; but not without a LOT of time invested)

I agree that he would of had the strongest case if he had of approached the dealer first and tried to rectify the problem with them. If the dealer was not willing to make it right then that's when a phone call to the manufacturer would have made sense and he would of had logic and ammunition working to his favor.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Name me one manufacturer that doesn't have occasional issues?

I just heard on the radio yesterday that Ford is recalling 150,000 F150 pickups because of wiring issue. How dare they!!!! Been manufacturing autos for 100 years!!!! Surely they shouldn't have engineering failures like that!!!!

You make a valid point and NO they shouldn't have engineering failures like that! The difference between the auto industry and the tractor industry is there are consumer protection laws in place to protect the consumer such as lemon laws that aren't there for the tractor industry. For example, if you purchase a new vehicle and something is wrong with it and you take it back to the dealer to get it repaired that dealer only has 30 days to get the problem fixed or you are entitled to a buyback. That same protection does not exist for consumers buying tractors which is why you hear these nightmare stories of dealers taking up to a year to get people's lemon tractors fixed. That would never be allowed in the auto industry.