Kioti vs LS buying advice

[shooterdon]

One last thing. One of the reasons I went with LS is that they make tractors for New Holland. So down the road parts should never be a concern. And if by chance my LS dealer ever shut down I could get service at a NH dealer not to far from me.

 

[sodamo]

My 2 cents.

My 1st tractor was a CK30hst Bought new in 2005, sold in 2019. Bought an LS XR4140H, still have (362hrs). Would have bought another Kioti in a heartbeat but no local dealer and got a great deal on the XR. Very pleased with both and would own either.
Things I think are important.

R4s over R1s. Dealer had R1s on XR so no option, someday I will change.

Rear remotes, Kioti came with 1, I added 2nd. Got 3 on XR right off.
I use TnT and figure if needed #3 could be plumbed to FEL if needed for grapple etc.

Telescoping stabilizers and extendable lower links - must haves for me.

Pallet forks probably get used more than bucket theses day. Only mower gets more use.

Don’t think I ever used Cruise control on either.

Quik attach for FEL, think it is standard on LS, but like 3pt a must for me.

If not considering a CAB, do consider a canopy.

I was never good with a box blade, but find my landscape rake of great value dressing my gravel drive.

Having a backhoe is so handy when you have one, otherwise it sits there a lot, but for me still worth it.

I like the additional HP of my XR, but honestly, the CK30 did everything I asked. Built our house with it.

Enjoy your choice.

 

[RidgeHiker]

Have had 2 Kiotis. Very happy with them.
My guess is you would notice the 800lb weight difference more than the 5 hp difference depending on what you are doing.
Don't know if you have done much research on LS vs Kioti for reliability but living on an island that might be a significant factor. If you haven't might be interesting to read the LS and Kioti forums on this site.

 

[DieselBound]

So, you're on Lopez Island...

I do NOT have a backhoe. I thought real hard about getting one. Though I do not have one I still feel plenty qualified in commenting on this subject as I've done a LOT of digging. I would have to ask how you came to state that renting would be impractical. Do you have known/spec'd projects that allow you to compare costs? You stated that you need to dig some trenches for water and electrical lines. Trenchers are what used to dig "trenches" (I've rented trenchers, though for short runs; I've also dug a fair by hand- too specialized and too close to building for equipment). Backhoes are for digging holes and ditches, and, for digging out stumps. I've rented excavators to dig stumps and ditches. I KNOW that no backhoe could have dug much of what I've dug; and that would be for industrial backhoes- CUT backhoes would absolutely have been incapable. I would have broken a tractor backhoe by now, if not the tractor itself. Specifying "miscellaneous building and digging tasks" really isn't specifying a requirement: no idea what you mean by that; and if you're not clear then perhaps it's not something that should be used to justify a purchase? Not trying to be flip. I understand looking to fit everything perfectly from the get-go, but if you're notion of all that you'd be doing doesn't materialize (as one often finds when one gets into something a bit, esp for the first time)?

I suspect a backhoe is going to run at least $3k. Think long and hard about what the money could do for you. You can think of projects that you "might" do, but unless they're certain projects then don't assume that they'd happen. When you rent equipment you're going to be a bit more absolute about what you're going to do with that, what value you expect to get for that rental cost.

I've got 40 acres. I've done a LOT of work with my B7800 (over 1,000 hrs). I've even done a lot of preliminary ditching using only a ripper shank and subsoiler. When I had to remove stumps I rented an excavator. I have put a fair number of hours on rental excavators to this point. No doubt about the fact that I could not have done the work with anything else (I've got the pictures to prove it), and that I'd have broken any tractor-mounted backhoe (and perhaps tractors as well) had I tried. And renting a skid steer for a fencing project, well worth the cost! A lot of this work was after I already had my NX5510: it built roads and cleared fence lines, cut brush and mowed grass and etc... so not exactly an idle observer!

I've broken things on my NX5510 whose repair would add up to a good day's rental of say an excavator (and then some). Didn't necessarily break it doing things that should have been done with say a rental, but the sense of being "down" is the point and that you risk being in such a state when you push your tractor to it's limits (or past).

Tight spots. Lots of mowing. Lots of loader work. HST. Primarily dirt work then synchro/gear: also if on steeper terrain.

Why a wood chipper? Larger stuff can be cut for firewood. Smaller stuff can be chewed up with a mower (rotary or, possibly, a flail [flails are used in orchards, though they're on larger tractors and flails]). Early on I'd thought I would want a wood chipper. I laugh. I'm too busy for such things! (I just mow stuff up since I have to mow grass anyway!)

Unless you've got long, smooth stretches cruise control isn't something that should be on a priority list. I used it a lot on my NX5510 when I was hauling material up and down my road, but since then not at all. On-property it ain't gonna happen as my property isn't smooth at all (logging skidders have been here!).

Things that I'd assign as being musts:

Quick attach loader
Rear remotes (hydraulic top link essential)
Ballasted rears

Anticipate warranty repairs. That will mean you should take into consideration dealer distance, not to mention dealer disposition.

 

[carl_lopezIs]

Thanks everyone for the input!
I haven't signed anything yet, but I'm sorting out the final details on a CK4010 HST with FEL and backhoe. I decided I didn't need all the features of the SE (especially the comfort features - I like simplicity), and I got the dealer to throw in 2 rear remotes. Went with the Kioti of the LS for various reasons - hst, weight, lead time, etc.

So, you're on Lopez Island...

I do NOT have a backhoe. I thought real hard about getting one. Though I do not have one I still feel plenty qualified in commenting on this subject as I've done a LOT of digging. I would have to ask how you came to state that renting would be impractical. Do you have known/spec'd projects that allow you to compare costs? You stated that you need to dig some trenches for water and electrical lines. Trenchers are what used to dig "trenches" (I've rented trenchers, though for short runs; I've also dug a fair by hand- too specialized and too close to building for equipment). Backhoes are for digging holes and ditches, and, for digging out stumps. I've rented excavators to dig stumps and ditches. I KNOW that no backhoe could have dug much of what I've dug; and that would be for industrial backhoes- CUT backhoes would absolutely have been incapable. I would have broken a tractor backhoe by now, if not the tractor itself. Specifying "miscellaneous building and digging tasks" really isn't specifying a requirement: no idea what you mean by that; and if you're not clear then perhaps it's not something that should be used to justify a purchase? Not trying to be flip. I understand looking to fit everything perfectly from the get-go, but if you're notion of all that you'd be doing doesn't materialize (as one often finds when one gets into something a bit, esp for the first time)?
I suspect a backhoe is going to run at least $3k. Think long and hard about what the money could do for you. You can think of projects that you "might" do, but unless they're certain projects then don't assume that they'd happen. When you rent equipment you're going to be a bit more absolute about what you're going to do with that, what value you expect to get for that rental cost.

Thanks for the thoughtful response here. Rentals are possible, but difficult. I don't have a trailer or truck capable of towing anything large, and delivery to the island adds cost and time. But the biggest reason I have is that I'll be working more than full time while also building my house and shop/barn, so I'll need to chip away at the projects rather than renting a purpose specific piece of equipment and knocking out chunks of work all at once. While I know that trenching or digging footings or road building will be slower and less efficient with a smaller tractor backhoe, I'm okay spending a bit more time and being careful with my equipment, if it means I can work when I have the time to work.

As far as miscellaneous building and digging - I mean things like, digging footings, digging drainage lines, lifting beams, tilting walls into place, moving materials.

Tight spots. Lots of mowing. Lots of loader work. HST. Primarily dirt work then synchro/gear: also if on steeper terrain.

I'm going with the HST. like you said, tight spots, mowing, loader, as well as working near buildings. My property slopes, but not steeply.

Why a wood chipper? Larger stuff can be cut for firewood. Smaller stuff can be chewed up with a mower (rotary or, possibly, a flail [flails are used in orchards, though they're on larger tractors and flails]). Early on I'd thought I would want a wood chipper. I laugh. I'm too busy for such things! (I just mow stuff up since I have to mow grass anyway!)

Not set on the wood chipper. Would only end up getting one if I find it cheap and used. Would be for chipping up smaller stuff that I don't want for firewood to maintain gardens and trails through the woods.

Unless you've got long, smooth stretches cruise control isn't something that should be on a priority list. I used it a lot on my NX5510 when I was hauling material up and down my road, but since then not at all. On-property it ain't gonna happen as my property isn't smooth at all (logging skidders have been here!).

This is exactly why I decided to skip the SE.

Things that I'd assign as being musts:

Quick attach loader
Rear remotes (hydraulic top link essential)
Ballasted rears

Definitely getting all 3 of these.

Anticipate warranty repairs. That will mean you should take into consideration dealer distance, not to mention dealer disposition.

Yep - I've considered this.

 

[Beeenvenue]

Thanks everyone for the input!
I haven't signed anything yet, but I'm sorting out the final details on a CK4010 HST with FEL and backhoe. I decided I didn't need all the features of the SE (especially the comfort features - I like simplicity), and I got the dealer to throw in 2 rear remotes. Went with the Kioti of the LS for various reasons - hst, weight, lead time, etc.



Thanks for the thoughtful response here. Rentals are possible, but difficult. I don't have a trailer or truck capable of towing anything large, and delivery to the island adds cost and time. But the biggest reason I have is that I'll be working more than full time while also building my house and shop/barn, so I'll need to chip away at the projects rather than renting a purpose specific piece of equipment and knocking out chunks of work all at once. While I know that trenching or digging footings or road building will be slower and less efficient with a smaller tractor backhoe, I'm okay spending a bit more time and being careful with my equipment, if it means I can work when I have the time to work.

As far as miscellaneous building and digging - I mean things like, digging footings, digging drainage lines, lifting beams, tilting walls into place, moving materials.


I'm going with the HST. like you said, tight spots, mowing, loader, as well as working near buildings. My property slopes, but not steeply.


Not set on the wood chipper. Would only end up getting one if I find it cheap and used. Would be for chipping up smaller stuff that I don't want for firewood to maintain gardens and trails through the woods.


This is exactly why I decided to skip the SE.


Definitely getting all 3 of these.



Yep - I've considered this.

If it isn’t too late reconsider the SE. it isn’t just convenience - the electronic pto is wonderful, and the extendable arms are worth a fortune (no need for pats or quick hitch). The better seat with armrest may sound simple but see how many posts are out there about they wish they had it! Now add in the second remote, etc and that 1200 is a definite choice.

 

[ericm979]

The only added cost to maintain an HST is an additional filter at transmission oil change time. It's extremely rare for a CUT HST to have a problem that requires opening the transmission.

Most CUTs will not need warranty service. And if you do your own routine maintenance, they will probably never need to go back to the dealer. Tractor maintenance is not that much more complex than car/truck maintenance except for needing larger tools.

I use my PTO chipper a lot, even though we burn 2.5 cords a year. Trees grow so fast here that there's always more that need processing. And of course there's brush that won't get burned in the stove. If you can burn piles and are willing to do so you may find that easier. I can chip brush during the dry season when it's not safe to burn (and my county heavily restricts burning for air quality reasons but you may not have that issue).

I'll agree with electric PTO and extendable 3pt arms being important features. Especially the extendable arms, that makes attaching an implement so much easier. Top and tilt cylinders make it even easier.

 

[Williy]

Have you seen this:

willy

 

[_RaT_]

Not familiar with LS but then I was snot familiar with Kioti either. I have used backhoes quite a bit be it compacts or industrial. There is a reason excavators are incredibly popular these days, they are so much better at the job. I love to use excavators and don't get excited about backhoes anymore (I did years ago). I would rather rent a mini excavator than purchase a backhoe for my tractor. Just a little extra advice whether you really wanted it or not.

 

[Stowed4Sea]

@carl_lopezIs Just an FYI if you weren't aware, the LS MT3 series has two models, anything with an "E" is your economy model. The models without an "E" in the name for the MT3 series are the premium, they come standard with things like rear remotes and better seats and I forget what else.

My local dealer had both on stock so I was able to see the differences, you mentioned how the LS were less feature rich, so just wanted to make sure you knew that difference. I'm also in the market, I'm gonna go with LS but only because Kioti is well over 2x the distance away and my wife likes blue. One of my old neighbors up in Illinois was a Kioti dealer and those are great tractors too.

An interesting thing I didn't think of, is comparing the cost to just add the remotes to the rear of an Economy model, because I don't care as much about the other things. I wonder if that would make it worth switching down to the economy model from the premium I had thought of earlier. Note that I saw someone mention XR previously, the LS brand used to have that mode, but they are switching everything over to MT1, MT2, MT3, MT5, MT7 (maybe 4,6 unannounced?) But they are going to those models away from the previous XR line. So the Premium XR model someone mentioned is now an MT345H, where the economy model you mentioned was MT345HE.

Hope that helps a bit, please excuse if you already knew all that