Kioti owners - Thanks... I think??

[Dave from GA & KY]

I was considering a used 2005 CK-25 tractor. Looks great, low hours, beautiful condition, reasonable asking price for what it is...

Problem is, it's got both an old style KL-130 Front End Loader AND a KB-2365 BackHoe.

After browsing this forum and reading the crack problems with the FEL and hydraulic problems with the BH, and more importantly the aparent lack of response from Kioti helping existing owners get a fix... y'all have pretty much talked me out of even considering a Kioti tractor. Bummer, 'cause most people seem to like the tractor itself and I like the looks of it.

Like many have said before me, doesn't seem like a very smart business move for Kioti to put their customers on simmer (reached boil in some cases) if they're, in fact, trying to become a respected presence in this market. Their lack of willingness to make things right and do it quick makes me, as a prospective buyer, wonder if they're really trying to become a long-term player or if they're just trying to grab the money & run... and, considering the info. I've read, I'd bet on the latter and am not willing to put my cash on the roulette wheel.

So, for those of you who wonder if these issues are hurting your resale value. Yes, they are. And for Kioti and Kioti dealers out there listening, here's a very interested (cash in hand) prospective customer lost. The technicalities of the problems users have experienced don't bother me, what bothers me is that people seem to be hanging on for months & months and not getting their equipment properly fixed. If I'd have read things like "Yeah - was a pain to take my loader back in to have the fix put on, but it was readily available and only took x hours to install and didn't cost me a penny AND I'm not the original owner!", I'd probably be buying your product right now. Everyone has design snafu's now & then, how your company and dealers handle it IS the difference between success and failure in this market.

I do appreciate those who've shared their bad experiences and frustrations for the benefit of us all. Guess I'll pay the extra money for one of the big 3, at least I know they'll stand behind their products.

I'm not a troll or trying to incite a riot here. This is my first post and it was going to be a "Looks like I'm buying a Kioti" post before an hour of reading. Just telling the facts from a "prospective" owners point of view. I hope this helps some of you.

Dave

 

[JoelD]

Check the other boards on other brands, they've all got their warts. I'm a very pleased Kioti owner, I also own a Kubota and a Deere. The Kioti is built every bit as nice and in some instances heavier. Would not trade my machine for any other. Like you I'm a cash buyer and super happy I put my cash on my Kioti. Please let me know of a brand and model for which you've found no negatives and I'll buy one of those as an investment, will sell for 10% more than I paid when time to but the mini-boss through college.

 

[rcrcomputing]

Like many have said before me, doesn't seem like a very smart business move for Kioti to put their customers on simmer (reached boil in some cases) if they're, in fact, trying to become a respected presence in this market. Their lack of willingness to make things right and do it quick makes me, as a prospective buyer, wonder if they're really trying to become a long-term player or if they're just trying to grab the money & run... and, considering the info. I've read, I'd bet on the latter and am not willing to put my cash on the roulette wheel.

Dave

I am one of those simmering.. Been quite so I wouldn't "fly off the handle"..

 

[Gittyup]

Dave in GA,

I appreciate your post. Maybe Kioti will take heed. Sorry, it has completely turned you off. I want to see as many owners as possible for the sake of the brand.

I think Kioti is trying to stand by their product, but they are doing so very quietly. Not sure what the rationale is here....

The new loader is very good, and I am unaware of any major backhoe issues.

You are not the first lost sale because of this. It is especially hitting resale value for those of us that already have Kiotis. I'm just glad I don't plan on selling mine (....and I love it, by the way).

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

If things had been different, would I have purchased a Kioti? Who knows? They were certainly on my short list. Was shopping with cash in hand. Had a line on a low hour used CK30 and then started to read here on TBN of the FEL problem & more important the apparent lack of response by Kioti Corp.

Forget the used Kioti!

Talked to the local dealer - said he never heard of the problem.

Forget the new Kioti!

JoelD - No one expects that any brand will have "no negatives." The key is the corporate response to fixing the problem and I suspect in the opinion of many, Kioti clearly dropped the ball on the FEL issue.

 

[jim_n_nh]

On my backhoe I had to make the calls. I never got a phonecall from Kioti. I spent $1200 on fixing a backhoe that had been worked on twice before and the tractor had 147 hours on it when I bought it. The previous owner dumped his problem on me and hopefully it is fixed now but it would have been nice if Kioti followed it up with a phonecall. Heck, they could make it collect.

 

[crabjoe]

JoelD - No one expects that any brand will have "no negatives." The key is the corporate response to fixing the problem and I suspect in the opinion of many, Kioti clearly dropped the ball on the FEL issue.

Maybe Deere just have more imaginative customers, because it seems they dropped the ball on the 2520's 3pt hitch. Seems the owners are finding their own workarounds to a engineering/design flaw which basically relieves Deere from fixing the problem.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...14246-three-point-hitch-clearance-2520-a.html

As for Bota, they have corporate response issues too. Look at plastic decks and fenders. Bota fixes some, but they tell other customers that cracks are cosmetic only.

All I'm saying is that all companies drop the ball here and there. It just seems some get reamed over them more then others. I also feel resolution to many of these problems are more of a dealer issue. I say this because many companies fix problems even after the warranty; but it seems this only happens when one has a good dealer press the issue for their customers.

I know this is wrong, but in the auto business, I've seen some dealers fix problems by warranting a repair using a different VIN when a vehicle is out of warranty. I'm not talking repairs that were caused by abuse, but a defect. It makes the customer feel good and the dealer gets paid without having to hassle with the regional rep.

 

[Dave from GA & KY]

Check the other boards on other brands, they've all got their warts. I'm a very pleased Kioti owner, I also own a Kubota and a Deere. The Kioti is built every bit as nice and in some instances heavier. Would not trade my machine for any other. Like you I'm a cash buyer and super happy I put my cash on my Kioti. Please let me know of a brand and model for which you've found no negatives and I'll buy one of those as an investment, will sell for 10% more than I paid when time to but the mini-boss through college.

As you can see from my original post I recognize that "everyone has their design snafu's", "warts" in your words. I'm talking about how the dealer network and Kioti handle them. Even offering a no questions asked, new arms for the 130 loader at cost, I don't know 2, 3 or 400 bucks. Or a "yeah, it seems all those backhoes have problems with that seal - leave it here for a day or 2 and we'll put a fix on it and you won't have to worry about it any more. Will only cost ya $50".

Maybe I'm not giving Kioti a fair shake. If I buy a tractor with a KB2365 backhoe or a KL 130 loader, what are the chances I'm gonna have trouble with it? I consider stress cracks in steel serious, unlike cracked plastic shrouds, etc. Will I, as the second owner, be able to take it to a Kioti dealer and have them install the "fix" for free? Will I be able to find the "fix"? Will it fit my loader?

What are the chances I'm going to have trouble with the hydraulics on the backhoe? Is there a free fix I can have put on that, the multi-hose thing? Is this an isolated issue? The owner has said that the hydraulics won't hold the hoe in the "stored" position, that it "slowly leaks down". He just keeps the pin in it all the time when not using it and it's not an issue for him. If that were the end of it, it wouldn't be an issue for me either, but is it just gonna fail completely someday, render my backhoe unusable and cost me a grand to get it fixed, not to mention the headaches of toting it around and not having it for a period of time? How many people out there are using this model backhoe without issue?

I'm not hardheaded or bashing just to bash. I was sincerely disappointed when I read about what seem to be pretty serious common issues with both pieces of equipment. I love the tractor and was ready to try and come to terms with the owner.

If I'm over-reacting here and worrying about something that is unlikely to happen OR will have no effect on the operation of the tractor if it does happen. Please clue me in. If there are thousands of these backhoes out there operating day in and day out without issue and the couple I read about here are the exception, I can certainly understand that.

If only 1 in 100 of the 130 loaders get the cracks and, even if they do it really doesn't make a difference in the operation of anything, then I can understand that too.

Fact is, I really like the equipment for the price and I'd still seriously consider it if I didn't feel like failure was eminent and unavoidable.

Dave

 

[crabjoe]

Dave, it seems like the price on this CK25 is a fair price enough for you to possibly chance this purchase.

The loader fix question can be answered by a dealer, because I doubt Kioti would send one to you directly. You might want to check with your local Kioti dealer too. If nothing else, it's always nice to know your local support team. You might find that they are terrible and that might turn you off from this deal all together.

Also, I'm only aware of one person that's had the crack cause a problem. It wasn't that his loader couldn't be used, but it did knock it from level. From what I remember, everyone else that got the crack wasn't happy, but it didn't do anything to the function.

The hoe hydraulic problem seems to be fairly rare and I remember one post where all it needed was a new seal. It seems the seal wasn't seated correctly. This caused a leak down and seemed more of a nuisance. I'm wondering if the problem with the hoe on the CK25 your looking at has the same problem.

Here's something I find odd. Why does this CK25 have a 2365 hoe instead of the 2375? I thought the 2365 was for the CK20.

BTW there are thousands of these Kiotis around the world but we probably won't know how serious the problem(s) might be because I doubt Kioti will ever release their warranty info. For all we know, we see more issues because when people have a problem, they tend to get online to find out what's going on. I'm trying to say the problem factor may be skewed.

If your wondering why I say there are thousands of Kiotis around the world, it's partly because of Youtube. When I started researching tractors, I went to Youtube to see what was out there. I found a bunch of videos with Kiotis but they were mostly eastern European or somewhere around there. Also when I told my neighbor about getting one, he told me Daedong was everywhere in Korea.

He had just gotten back from visiting in-laws in S Korea, and while there, his Father in law put him to work. They were removing trees and such and he said all the rental fleets were Daedong. He made it sound like Daedong was the Bobcat (as in most people know what a Bobcat is but if you say skidsteer, they're like What??) of S Korea.

Oh, you might want to post to see if there are any Kioti owners in your area that might let you "Test Drive" thiers. When I was looking I got an invite from Gittyup to run his CK25. With running his Kioti, talking to him one on one and the info I got online, I bought the CK20s. I could have gone with most any brand, but after seeing a Kioti in action and the price, I really didn't have an alternative.

Good luck with whatever you purchase, just make sure you're happy with it.

 

[coobie]

Dave,here is my take on this.I owned a 1998 massey ferg.1240 that I bought brand new in 1998.It was a excellent tractor,but 2 out of the 3 dealers in my area went out of business.No dealer support or parts.I called ago corp in alanta ga.who handles massey ferg.and spoke to a VP in customer service about getting more dealers in my area he told me maybe I should buy green or orange products,no BS I was floored by that comment.I did buy orange a 2008 Kioti DK 40 se and have been very pleased with it at this point.I have 4 local dealers within driving distance.I also bought a brand new 2006 kubota RTV 900 which has a front drive shaft rattle that drives me nuts,it has been replaced twice under warrenty with no improvement,and now it is out of warrenty.My point being you can buy a lemon in any product,cars,trucks,tractors and so forth.Good luck on whatever tractor you choose and do your homework.coobie