Kioti owners - Proud?

lcisled · Sep 28, 2005

As I lurk and look at the various posts on TBN, it seems that those that own Kioti tractors seem to be the highest on their tractor brand.

Lately I have read that some Kioti owners are being looked at as "trolls". I read into the posts that Kioti owners(and other tractor brand owners,but mostly Kioti owners) will join any forum and talk up the benefits of Kioti tractors.

I own both a JD and a Kioti. When visiting with folks about compact tractors, it seems like I will end up talking about the Kioti over the John Deere. If you reread my posts, I have even had some trouble with the Kioti, but I still love the tractor (by the way, I have a great dealer as well). Don't get me wrong, the JD is a great tractor as well, It just seems that I talk the Kioti more.

So, is it a certain personality type that buys Kioti. Only the ones who want to brag up and defend foreign orange tractors buy Kioti? Why are we this way? I seem to get the feeling that others on the board are sick of us. and it seems to be getting worse, or maybe it is my perception that it is getting worse.

Discussions on market share show Kioti not in the top 4-5. But on TBN, there is a Kioti owner on almost every thread. Good luck to anyone that comes on the Kioti forum and talks bad about Kioti tractors!

Anyway, anybody got any explanations?

bearhawk · Sep 28, 2005

( Anyway, anybody got any explanations? )

I don't know, but I like my Kioti! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

gmsssi · Sep 28, 2005

IMO..........It's the natural PRE-defense of defending your DECISION cause you know it's coming. Might as well get the first blow........ /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mine has been great short of operator error.... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I owned Kubota, and after searching all brands for an upgrade, I think I made the right decision. I have near every brands flyer (w/quotes) to prove my search and I came SO close to buying a Mahindra. I was open to all, so in my case, it would be to defend my decision.

I haven't been scolded by a moderator yet so I must be refraining OK, but I do like to remind people to be open to Kioti.

That's my explanation!

BoneheadNW · Sep 28, 2005

( Anyway, anybody got any explanations? )

From a strickly scientific point of view, without doing any controlled experiments, anything is possible. Could even be a government conspiricy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bonehead

odleefs · Sep 28, 2005

People, often times, attack or smear what they do not know...Kioti's are relatively new here, so they are at the butt end of conversation/opinion. Kioti owners are in-the-know, so they defend, accordingly.
But, who wouldn't defend their make/brand decision?!? All of us (hopefully!) have made decisions that were the best at the time, taking many factors into account (needs, wants, finances, dealer, etc.) When uneducated people belittle another's choice, purely subjectively, it is annoying and worthless! That said, when someone who knows the product offers constructive criticism from an objective viewpoint, these suggestions I remember and value.
Steve

RedRocker · Sep 29, 2005

Interesting topic. I can only speak for myself, so here goes.
I was pretty set on buying a NH or maybe Kubota. I'm the type that wants what I want and don't settle for less. I was prepared to do without rather than buy an "offbrand" tractor.
A friend of mine suggested due to my financial situation that I look at Kioti, Mahandra etc. I took a look and was impressed with the looks, fit and finish of the CK series as well as it's weight and beefy components. I thought dang, all this time I let my pre conceived ideas blind me to a perfectly good choice that was quite a bit more affordable. Now some old timers here will diss me or others as inexperienced with tractors and they will be correct. But, I'm not inexperienced with mechanical things and a tractor is a mechanical thing. I've been a machinist/fabricator for 40 years, so I know a mechanical POS when I see it. I think Deere, NH and Bota are great tractors, if money had been no object I would surely own one, the dealers are closer for one thing. My point when a new guy is asking and price is a factor is to mention Kioti for consideration, I think it's as good as any brand out there. That is just a personal opinion, I have not owned another brand, but I should be so lucky to live long enough to wear mine out. I never try to represent myself as the guru of tractors and I never tell people to buy a Kioti, maybe once as a tongue in cheek joke, but never seriously. Somebody with 5 hours on a tractor has information to share, like don't exit a CK30 on the right side, you don't have to be farming for 30 years to share that little tidbit to a new owner. Anyway, that's my take. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

HODAK · Sep 29, 2005

I would guess that you will get a lot of response on this topic. Can you imagine what KUBOTA owners had to listen to years ago when KUBOTA was getting started in the US? Probably the same things I hear from people when I say I own a KIOTI........... A what?? I have explained, (defended), my decision to buy a KIOTI a few times over the past 5 months and probably will continue to do so for a long time. MY KIOTI will prove to me over the next ten or twenty years that I made the correct decision after looking at four other brands. I feel that most of the tractor buyers on TBN are making a very informed decision and most will and should defend the brand they bought. Maybe KIOTI owners are picked on the most and that is why there is a lot of defending going on(?) As in life, when someone tries to make another person feel inferior, it is because they need to feel superior.

Gettin a little deep now /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I'll just keep on saying, "it's a coyote - like the animal" when people say - a what??? Have a nice day /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

DrewL · Sep 29, 2005

I am proud, very proud, mostly because I did my homework. this site provided me with many of the tools I needed to make a buyers decision. I'm also proud of the price I paid. There IS NO machine out there that even comes close in price. I bought a CK30LB HST for $21,699 TOTAL

Not knocking other brands but the dealers I spoke to and there were many, could almost be ashamed of their quotes when I was looking. So, am I proud? Yes, very much so

Dachshund · Sep 29, 2005

It's going to be a case where you will defend what you know/have. Example: Edsel owners will defend them to thier last breathe. Kioti is good for some people, but not others - just like JD, or 'Bota, etc. Me, for instance, I'm proud to own an American made tractor. It's all a matter of choice. You get what suits YOU.

HODAK · Sep 29, 2005

It would be hard, (I believe impossible), to find an American made compact tractor these days. Rather tough to buy anything these days that doesn't support foreign countries /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I don't like it, but there aren't many choices anymore. At least my dealer made a few bucks and they are Americans /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Noodlearm · Sep 29, 2005

As said by most, we are defending our purchase. That being said, I have seen many times a few users blatantly push a Kioti to users that, at least in my opinion, it wouldn't be the best machine for. I don't have enough appendages to count how many times I have seen someone blindy reccomend a ck30 to someone who is primarily looking for a mowing machine and price is not much of a concern. Now, I use my CK30 for mowing, but if it was my only concern, you can bet I would own something much lighter such as a Kubota or NH. Everytime someone else mentions this (that the Kioti is not an ideal mowing machine due to weight, not to mention its turning radius isn't the greates) the poster/s who recommended the Kioti will say that "it doesn't harm my grass at all". I do no damage to my grass with my machine but that doesnt mean that their are better options, and for some people, that added weight definately will harm their grass. Not to get into a long rant here, but this is my experience and it has happened many times and mostly by a few posters. I love my machine and would suggest anyone looking for a tractor in its size range to take a look at it, but its not the be all end all solution. I think most would agree, at least it seems this way to me, that the arguing generally revolves around the ck series. Thats my take on it, feel free to disagree.

Dachshund · Sep 29, 2005

Didn't say I had a NEW tractor! Although there are still a few compacts made in the USA, but getting fewer all the time.

Bob_Skurka · Sep 29, 2005

Personally I really like this thread, for the most part emotions have been left at the door and people are being objective. I almost posted last night but held off simply because I figured it would lead to some attacks.

I'll openly say that I have criticized many of the Kioti owners for pushing their brand when it is not appropriate, but I have a pretty solid record of suggesting it to be a good brand when it is appropriate. I do think that Noodlearm's observations are spot on accurate.

A former TBN member as actually been kicked off of TBN for his attacks when questioned about logic of some of his posts pushing Kioti. --Example, a guy specifically requested information on a tractor in the 40+hp range, and specifically stated he NEEDED both HST and a MMM. The Kioti guy pushed the DK45.
Another example, guy wants to mow the lawn on 2 acres, specifically wants a MMM. The very same Kioti guy pushed the CK30.
I used those examples simply because that guy ultimately got banned for some very offensive stuff. But there is no shortage of those examples scattered around.

There are some other issues that seem to bring up heated debate too. Price is obviously a hot button. Seems like when a legitimate poster can't save big money on a Kioti he is almost attacked and the implication is that he is a liar. Recently I asked if some of the price difference might have been simply bad negotiating skills of some buyers and was immediately attacked for even asking the question, but several Deere & Kubota owners jumped in and indicated that they didn't see any major price advantage to Kioti. And there are posts indicating Kioti to be more expensive than Kubota scattered around. But certainly the prevelant view is that Kioti is lower priced, but it is not close to a unanimous certanty. So again, that is an issue that will remain a hot topic for a long time to come.

I have posted previously on TBN and on other forums where this type of stuff is discussed if each brand has a different personality of buyer? I personally think it does. The initial post in this thread certainly touched on that very subject.

I've often likened Kubota owners to Toyota owners, they have something good, it is pretty vanilla in most ways, but it works and gets the job done and is reliable as all get out; owners of 30+hp units seem to have prior experience with tractors, below 30hp, most are on their first machine.

JD owners strike me as expecting a high level of quality, functionality and service; not unlike a Mercedes Benz; most seem to be VERY experienced with tractors.

The owners of New Hollands seem to favor specific advantages and appreciate the Swiss Army knife type versitility of their machines, and they put up with the occasional problems, not unlike VW owners, most seem to be VERY experienced with tractors, especially true in larger size machines.

Kioti owners seem to be first time owners in most machine sizes, they seem to be very price sensitive, and many seem to place a fairly low value on dealer service, often traveling 50+ miles to purchase their machine.

Obviously there are exceptions to my characterizations for every brand, these are my general impressions only.

HODAK · Sep 29, 2005

I know you don't have a NEW tractor, didn't say you did. I see you have an 8n. I was speaking about the buyers out there looking. By the way, what brand of compact tractor is made in the USA? I remember reading about JD and their owners said they were manufactured in the USA, when in fact they are assembled here after arriving on a boat. ( Let me clarify - CUT's)

Bob_Skurka · Sep 29, 2005

I remember reading about JD and their owners said they were manufactured in the USA, when in fact they are assembled here after arriving on a boat. ( Let me clarify - CUT's) 

For what it is worth, the 4x20 series are American made, not Yanmar imports, and are powered by a JD made engine.

RedRocker · Sep 29, 2005

Bob, I think one reason Kioti owners travel so far is the lack of dealers. There are quite a few in the DFW area, but most of them are at least 45 miles from me. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Bob_Skurka · Sep 29, 2005

( Bob, I think one reason Kioti owners travel so far is the lack of dealers. There are quite a few in the DFW area, but most of them are at least 45 miles from me. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

Could be, but I honestly figured there are 2 other reasons. #1) many seem like do-it-yourself types when it comes to wrenching their machines #2) many seem to travel largely to save money on the purchase, there seem to be many more posts in the Kioti forum than the other forums where people will travel hundreds of miles to save money. Goes back to the point of being very price sensitive.

Again, these are just general observations only, exceptions abound.

VictorW · Sep 29, 2005

Now that I own a CK30hst, I don't read the other forums. I enjoy and am thankful for the learning and information received about my Kioti from other members that have more Kioti experience. I thought that is what TBN is for. A place for owners and operators to share info, no matter what brand they own. I still have my 1948 Ford 8N. It's a good tractor but has its limitations.

Maybe I don't read the posts enough to notice the one sided comments that Kioti is apparently the best. All that I've seen is price comparisons and then owners advising what their Kioti is able to do for them or particular features they like. Never saw a comment where anyone said that another brand couldn't do the same work. Some have posted about a particular feature being better than another brand but that is a personal comment and not all would agree.

Before buying my Kioti, I looked at Ford, JD, and Kubota. There are definately are more dealers for them in my area. Each comparable tractor has its pros and cons, by my opinion, which would differ from another person. If I could, I'd like to design my own tractor. I'd take all the things I liked from each and make one perfect for me but maybe most of you wouldn't like it. Again, we're back to personal preference.

There are a few things that have shown up here which I think are centered around the CK25 and 30. Tie rods being bent and dented hydraulic filters but this hasn't occurred to all owners and this isn't to say that those who have experienced this are any less of a good operator. Stuff happens but I think this is something that Kioti should redesign. But again, my opinion.

I can remember many years ago when Kubota was the tractor not to buy because it was a new brand and not built in the USA. Amazing how this idea has changed. Now, there are some who will only buy Kubota and I'm glad that they are so faithful to the brand. That's their preference.

I like my Kioti but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like another color tractor in my garage waiting for the next days work. I made a choice to buy mine on what I deemed important factors for me. My preference and my opinion.

As one of the members usually posts and I apologize for forgetting your name; Why can't we all just get along.

Kiohio · Sep 29, 2005

I know as a dealer I am proud /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When you "find" a good thing you want everyone to know.
Like marrying a woman that loves to run the string trimmer /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
BTW she also thinks rotary cutters are COOL too!

Really when another person disagrees, they are calling you a liar, to an extent.
It's the same reason people get mad when you tell them their "American made" New Holland, JD etc, was made in a nice little country called Japan, Turkey, India, Czechoslovakia, Germany, Italy, China etc.
I hear people say "Look it says it's from N.Carolina".
Comments get us wound up, because you will never get to talk to those people.
We don't care what you buy, just get all the facts.
We LOVE informed buyers, if nothing else open minded.
Look at all the info and buy what suits your application best.

If you ask "other" brand owners they will brag their tractor up and down.

Kioti is the first "New kid on the block" Since Kubota.
The first to Hang on anyway and really make a dent in the market.

Kioti dealers/owners are proud because we know that deep down the units are tough as nails and we like being a little "different".
I took on Kioti after talking to alot of other Kioti dealers.
WE are "overproud" because we know that chances are the next word out of the other guys mouth will be "WHat is a Kioti", to which we say "Let me tell you......".
No one ever walks up and says..."What is a John deere or Cub Cadet or Kubota(they used to on that one).
Kioti is a company you can "Get behind" Other than the product itself everything else is "Stateside" and ran by Kioti.
You don't have to look up a distributor or anything like that.
Has a more family-like feel to it.
Good people, not perfect but very good none-the-less.
We also like more bang for the buck....and in reality if you compare apples to apples Kioti is ALOT of tractor for the money.

I know a guy that said a dealer told him they were "Industrial" Kubotas.
They aren't but they are built like it.
Not all perfect but we sorta like 'em. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Go Kioti

KO

MessickFarmEqu · Sep 29, 2005

I think the distaste for the Kioti forum is because there is more misinformation and bias comming from this group than any other. Its nothing against the brand or product, its with the individuals that make false or unresearched claims.

(
Kioti is the first "New kid on the block" Since Kubota.
The first to Hang on anyway and really make a dent in the market.
)

This is the kinda stuff I am talking about. First, Kioti is not "first since Kubota" - there have been dozens of companies who have come and gone over the years and there will be more. The "dent" they have made in the market is in the range of about 3000 units a year - less than HALF what mahinda does and about 2.5% of Kubota's unit volume. Infact there are single dealerships who have higher yearly sales volumes and than the entire Kioti USA corp.

I've got nothing against Kioti's product, what drives me up the wall is the constant flow of this kinda stuff which is not based on industry fact. You don't see these kind of things consistantly comming from any other forum here.