kioti lawsuit

[Dargo]

Absolutely. Maybe it is my imagination, but I thought I said that I have no ties to any particular tractor manufacturer. If it doesn't work as it is supposed to, I squeak. With the initial walk around on a cayotee I would have gone hoarse from squeaking. First, it wouldn't start. It needed to be jump started. No big deal, right? Apparently not in your reasoning. Second, it wouldn't idle smoothly. In your reckoning it must be junk. Third, the flunkie who put the loader on it hooked the lines up incorrectly, so the loader didn't work properly. Gee, this Kioti must have really been a lemon! (not necessarily, but I'm making a point) Take those facts with the resale value and I simply had to erase the Kioti from my choices this year. If I was not open minded to looking at other brands every time I go to trade, I'd still be driving JD green and believing the pitch that everyone driving other tractors simply are wishing that they could too have a JD. I drive other makes, I compare quality, durability, and resale as well as over all feel; since it it my butt that is going to be in the seat. Kioti marketing is the only reason I looked at their tractors; they made them up to look like Kubota tractors. Again, smart marketing move. They just need to keep working and they may very well win over me and the tens of thousands of other buyers who stay with the big three manufacturers for the reasons I stated.
As far as trading tractors every couple of years. Do you know why? Because I can!! To move up a couple of years for a couple thousand dollars works just fine with me. I used to keep old tractors that I had to work on half of the time before I used them. Not any more. I have too many things to do and have no interest in working on something before I use it. If I bought one that lost over half of it's value in two years it would make it much more difficult to do. You seem to be stuck on that fact. I can trade for a new tractor every couple of years or so for a couple thousand dollars. When you can do that with your Kioti, drop me a note and I'll look at them again. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Dargo]

Sorry Daedong, there is nothing wrong with a Kia, but I believe you have odds of about ten million to one against you for people who would prefer a Kia over a Mercedes if given a chance to pick between the two. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
That's because this is yesterday's, actually yester-years, news. Your the one that's hypin' it.
)</font>

The lawsuit was settled on Aug 30th, hardly yester-year.

 

[rtimgray]

If you enjoy shelling out a few thousand dollars every couple of years for a new tractor, that's great. As you have said, it's your money, your time and your butt in the seat of the tractor, so it's all up to you. I personally prefer to buy a tractor that will last for years and years with little or no upkeep beyond routine maintenance...then I'm out neither the time and effort of repairs or the few thousand dollars every year - but to each their own.

I'm glad you finally gave some examples for your distaste for Kioti (I take the time to spell tractor manufacturers right; it's too bad other folks are either to petty, childish or lack either the cranial capacity or the opposable digits necessary to properly type the correct characters to form the proper spelling of a brand name of a tractor). Those reasons are much more qualified (and legitimate) than reasons given earlier.

It is also good of you to point out flaws in the your Kubota; no tractor or car manufacturer is perfect and everybody makes a few flaws in the assembly of a product. I'm sure your Kubota dealer will take care of this problem posthaste to ensure that your essential resale value remains unharmed.

Finally, it's good to see that you have at least a little ESP since you know that no one would ever pick a Kia over a Mercedes. That's why all the Kia dealerships are going away and there are so many Mercedes dealerships - waitaminute, I've got two Kia dealerships within an hours drive but no Mercedes; weird. After all, like you have said, you get what you pay for; it's certainly not possible to get a good value for your dollar due to other economic factors and intercontintal politics, so it must be simply due to the fact that machines that cost less must be inferior - my, that is sound reasoning.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

(I take the time to spell tractor manufacturers right; it's too bad other folks are either to petty, childish or lack either the cranial capacity or the opposable digits necessary to properly type the correct characters to form the proper spelling of a brand name of a tractor). )</font>


You spelled intercontinental wrong /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rtimgray]

"I take the time to spell tractor manufacturers right"

Which tractor brand is spelled intercontinental?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

BTW... I think part of the reason that people are so critical of Kioti is because of people like yourself (and others) that get all fired up and act like serious fanboys. Mahindra is in a strikingly similar situation yet there are no heated arguments over their machines. People (including me sometimes) need to chill out and realize that each person makes the decision that’s best for themselves.

Back to the point of this thread...

I think the lawsuit has a lot to do with this exact situation. Kioti draws some serious parallels to Kubota that really fires up this rivalry. Such a situation does not exist with Mahindra and that machine does better at standing on its own merits.

 

[rtimgray]

because of people like yourself (and others) that get all fired up and act like serious fanboys

...yeah, no other tractor manufacturer has any defenders? I've never seen Cowboydoc go to bat for JD...Go to the Mahindra, Yanmar and Chinese forums and see if nobody ever defends those tractors. Kubota also had it's share of defenders. To try to hang this label on Kioti owners alone is nearsighted and moronic.

Most of it revolves around if somebody talks smack about what your choice was then a person can take that personally; I'm glad I come across as a "serious fanboy" instead of a naysaying nitpicking fence sitting brand-bigotted person.

Besides being orange (of a different shade) and starting with a "K", what parallels do Kioti and Kubota have? I have never confused the two, and frankly don't know why anyone else (who can read and think for themselves, two attributes tractor operators should possess prior to turning the key) would.

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue"> I think part of the reason that people are so critical of Kioti is because of people like yourself (and others) that get all fired up and act like serious fanboys. </font>

I find it kind of amuzing that two Kubota-ites come into the Kioti forum to 'stir the pot' and then you (Messick) blame the Kioti contributors for getting fired up.

You don't see the Kioti dealers going over to the Kubota forum spouting about the <font color="blue">
"seemingly anemic"</font>(borrowing Messick's terminology from another thread) Kubota products, do ya?

This lawsuit was filed Dec. 2002. Yawn....

Don

 

[Dargo]

rtimgray; do I have an attitude? Not really. Do I have opinions; you bet your bottom side! Do I work hard for my money? Dumb question. Did I create and continue to grow and run two successful companies by making more "wrong" decisions than "right" decisions? Odds are against it.
If you want to turn this debate between Kubota vs. Kioti into an intellectual battle between us, I'll take that challenge any day. Everybody has made wrong decisions in their life, it is how they learn and adapt from those decisions that demonstrate the true academic acumen of those who purport to have acutely sophisticated mental and linguistic talents. I'd gladly compare intellectual accolades, degrees and awards with you as well as the end results, but it would be pointless, as well as off of the subject. Besides, I always feel that results speak for themselves, regardless of how you get there as long as it is legal.
Kioti has utilized a brilliant marketing endeavor to pick up on an existing quality brand name and look. That is good marketing. Keep working on the tractor and quality with both the machine and franchised dealers and they definitely may have something.
After I sold my last tractor and called to rent a CUT for a weekend, there was not a single rental dealer in my area who offered a Kioti tractor in their rental fleet. Coincidence? Maybe. Problem with the actual franchised dealer not having the product assembled and presented properly? Possibly. Poor fleet sales? Possibly.
Although I an definitely not a person to give you stock advice (yes, I lost my figurative shirt), I generally stay with what is considered a "sure bet". That's all. Oh yeah, I love a great debate! Ask the guys in my board room; I have no use for a "suck up".

 

[rtimgray]

"If you want to turn this debate between Kubota vs. Kioti into an intellectual battle between us, I'll take that challenge any day."

Sorry - but I refuse to enter into a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent.

 

[To20Chris]

I bought my tractor to use, not to trade, so I was concerned about the quality of its construction, not the ever-changing level of public perception. I predict that before too long, the differences in resale value between Kioti and Kubota will be negligible. If you plan on selling it on a shorter time frame, then you’d best buy what John Q. Public thinks is the most valuable, regardless of how good it is. Take a look at the Newbies on this board – many of them start out looking at Kubota (as I did), but then many of them know nothing about tractors at that point. They look at Kubota first because they recognize the name, not because they know it to be superior. Don’t forget that you have to buy that resale value up front, and frankly it’s a lousy investment. Beyond that, the resale values that get tossed about here are all dealer trade-in numbers, and as such are severely distorted. If I could have found a couple year old LK3054 for the kind of discount that Messick and others quote (and he does this on the Mahindra board too in order to promote the Kubotas he sells), I would have snapped it up in a heartbeat.

Kubota makes a quality product, but I look at the posts there too. They have the same kinds of quality problems as everyone else, from lousy paint to sticking HST controls and rough engines. Since I was concerned less with the dollar value of the tractor than I was with its worth as a machine, I evaluated the quality of its design and manufacture, which is something I know a bit about. It is top notch, and I have had no problems with mine at all. Had I settled for the Kubota that I very nearly bought for the same price, I would have been sorely disappointed.

I’m glad you like the Kubotas you buy. By the time I bought my Kioti, I would have bought it at the SAME price, as I believe it had more features at equal or better quality. It won't be long until the price and resale values reflect this fact.

 

[daedong]

Dargo,

I think your views regarding quality of tractors and cars are primary based on brand names, You have not made one constructive comment on products that have cheaper retail prices than another, I therefore believe your views are based on snob value only, as we all know (those that are intelligent) that you don't necessarily get what you pay for, very often you pay simply for the name /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[slowzuki]

Everyone needs to relax! This is supposed to be fun!

I'm a fan of both Kubota and Kioti, both have their strong points, I'd personally like to do some mixing and matching of features to get the ideal tractor.

I'm an impartial third party but the Kioti folk do get uptight a little easy. Its not hard when people drop in here time to time and drop disparaging remarks about their tractors. Same as how some of the BX crowd get (not on TBN)!

I used to get uptight too when people would poke fun at my Suzuki Samurai. I learned to enjoy it for myself and not worry what others thought about it.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Everybody has made wrong decisions in their life, it is how they learn and adapt from those decisions that demonstrate the true academic acumen of those who purport to have acutely sophisticated mental and linguistic talents. )</font>

This kinda stuff is what I was talking about. The attitude here is that if you did not buy a Kioti you made the wrong choice. There are defenders of other brands but not to the extent that happens here. I am not pointing fingers, I can be as guilty as the next guy. You can label me as a "Kubotaite" but remeber that I also sell New Holland and deal with a multitude of machines on a day to day basis. I don't hide that fact and it certianly brings me critism that is not always due (although at times it is).

The approach that myself, and everyone else should be taking is that the right tractor is the one that suits YOU best and not the one recomended by any of these forums. Pricing is totaly regional and not one machine fits every person best, listening to you guys you would never know that. If that leads a person to a Kioti and they are happy with it good for them, if it leads them elsewhere they should not be insulted for that either.

In reguards to my "anemic" comments, you will find that I also backed Bob Surka in his feels about the LA402, a loader that I sell.

The enviroment around here stinks... end rant.

 

[Muhammad]

I think this thread has reached the end of its useful life.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I used to get uptight too when people would poke fun at my Suzuki Samurai )</font>

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gifWhen people used to ask me about ours, or poke fun at it, I'd just tell them, "It ain't much of a car, but it's a great toy." /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif We only kept ours long enough to put 45k miles on it and the only thing I spent on it, other than gas, oil, and filters was a new battery just before we sold it. And the only reason we sold it was because we were taking off to wander around the country in a fifth-wheel trailer towed by a one ton truck.