Kioti - Good, Bad or Indifferent

[rback33]

or POSSIBLY your sample size was not representative of kioti loaders as a whole.........

This is defintely the case I think. There is not NEAR enough data to support any conclusions or percentages. The pool is not big enough... but again.. no need to rehash it all... Kioti is working on it.

 

[IslandTractor]

or POSSIBLY your sample size was not representative of kioti loaders as a whole.........

This is defintely the case I think. There is not NEAR enough data to support any conclusions or percentages. The pool is not big enough... but again.. no need to rehash it all... Kioti is working on it.

Actually, it is not so much a sample size issue. If 11 of approx 50 loaders checked by TBN members were cracked then it is statistically highly improbable that 0 of 75 loaders checked by a single dealer would be cracked. Those samples are large enough to state that with a high degree of certainty. The only explanations I can come up with are 1) actually about 500 tbn members checked their loaders by removing the cover plate but there was a bias (reporting bias) in who bothered to post those findings (cracked much more likely to report than no cracks), 2) People on TBN are over calling "cracks" (seems unlikely with numerous photos posted), 3) for some bizarre reason all the tractors provided to dealers in Virginia come from a non cracking batch or 4) the dealer in question has quoted 0 of 75 but in reality should have made the statement that "we have sold 75 loaders and none of the owners has reported a crack....we have started checking for cracks by pulling off the inspection plate but have not yet checked all 75 loaders". It would not be difficult to reconcile the numbers if this fourth possibility was true, especially as #1 may be partially true as well. I think if you look at tractorhill's subsequent posts you'll see that he seems to imply that #4 is indeed correct and that he has not yet inspected all 75 loaders. It would be rather remarkable to think that, short of a major recall program, a dealer would just happen to have had all 75 sold loaders in his shop over a 3 month period for unrelated service/maintenance issues.

As a final point, to reassure those who seem to think this loader business is all about bashing the tractors: I own a cracked KL120 and I totally love my CK20 tractor. I would buy another today without hesitation, even with the unresolved cracking issue. However, I have been unimpressed with corporate Kioti's handling of the issue in the beginning but am content, now that they announced they are working on a fix, that things will work out in the end. The corporate office is still not earning "A" grades in my book as they have yet to communicate a second time with dealers over their planned fix even though their earlier communication was more than two months ago. That is leaving a lot of guys left to just wonder what is happening. Again, as I have stated before, I think corporate Kioti's antiquated and inadequate communications skills, not TBNers, not dealers and certainly not the CK tractors, is the factor mostly responsible for any black eye.

 

[Justaplain]

Thank you Mr DePratt for the help with loader problem. bcs

 

[rback33]

or POSSIBLY your sample size was not representative of kioti loaders as a whole.........


Actually, it is not so much a sample size issue. If 11 of approx 50 loaders checked by TBN members were cracked then it is statistically highly improbable that 0 of 75 loaders checked by a single dealer would be cracked. Those samples are large enough to state that with a high degree of certainty. The only explanations I can come up with are 1) actually about 500 tbn members checked their loaders by removing the cover plate but there was a bias (reporting bias) in who bothered to post those findings (cracked much more likely to report than no cracks), 2) People on TBN are over calling "cracks" (seems unlikely with numerous photos posted), 3) for some bizarre reason all the tractors provided to dealers in Virginia come from a non cracking batch or 4) the dealer in question has quoted 0 of 75 but in reality should have made the statement that "we have sold 75 loaders and none of the owners has reported a crack....we have started checking for cracks by pulling off the inspection plate but have not yet checked all 75 loaders". It would not be difficult to reconcile the numbers if this fourth possibility was true, especially as #1 may be partially true as well. I think if you look at tractorhill's subsequent posts you'll see that he seems to imply that #4 is indeed correct and that he has not yet inspected all 75 loaders. It would be rather remarkable to think that, short of a major recall program, a dealer would just happen to have had all 75 sold loaders in his shop over a 3 month period for unrelated service/maintenance issues.

As a final point, to reassure those who seem to think this loader business is all about bashing the tractors: I own a cracked KL120 and I totally love my CK20 tractor. I would buy another today without hesitation, even with the unresolved cracking issue. However, I have been unimpressed with corporate Kioti's handling of the issue in the beginning but am content, now that they announced they are working on a fix, that things will work out in the end. The corporate office is still not earning "A" grades in my book as they have yet to communicate a second time with dealers over their planned fix even though their earlier communication was more than two months ago. That is leaving a lot of guys left to just wonder what is happening. Again, as I have stated before, I think corporate Kioti's antiquated and inadequate communications skills, not TBNers, not dealers and certainly not the CK tractors, is the factor mostly responsible for any black eye.

*LMAO*.... so... in summary.. we agree that TBN "statistics" are flawed and cannot really be trusted *raises glass* I'l drink to that...

 

[nuke]

Hey guys - remember me the original poster. Should I buy a Kioti or not?

Can't a crack in the loader be welded, sanded and painted or is it a structural design flaw that will break again? If you want to gripe about a loader you should all see the Bulldog 187 on my Shibaura! The tractor is fine (some normal modest moist spots for an older tractor) but the Bulldog was WAY underdesigned. It is bowing in the middle of the bucket and both side supports have crumpled. I will be cutting them out and replacing with 2"x5" square tubing. I have NOT been easy on it, but it has been the Achilles heal of the tractor set up since day one. Don't get me started on the loader hydraulic system - geeesshhh! The loader is making me consider selling the tractor and getting a Kioti.

 

[MikePA]

Hey guys - remember me the original poster.

Should I buy a Kioti or not?

Kiotis are good tractors and if you have a good, local dealer they'd be on my list. The loader 'issue' could be a great negotiation point.

 

[williekioti]

Should you buy a Kioti? That's a personal decision you'll have to make, but I will give you my two cents on the issue. (Was going to post earlier until the the scuffle ensued, but since you asked again, here goes.) These as I see it are a few of the points you should have satisfied; 1) Dealer, deal with one you are comfortable with, adequate service dept.(experienced), that will back your product/his sale five + years down the road. 2) Does the tractor fit your needs/requirements? Run it around the his lot and if you can swing it on your own property.

I bought a CK30 gear this past spring and could not be more pleased with it's performance and also with the service from my dealer. I do not have experience with the KL130 FEL other than running one on the dealer's lot. Mine came with a Woods 1012 already installed, but I have confidence that Kioti is going to make that situation right. The dealership I dealt with had CK25s with the KL130 and Ck30s with the Woods 1012, I went with the 30 because the Woods has a slick QA setup and the dealer did not charge extra for the Woods FEL, only the extra ponies. Didn't know about the possibility of a issue with the FEL, was not part of the consideration. If you're concerned see if your dealer has a quality aftermarket loader, I personally like the Woods alot. I have had no major issues and the two small ones my dealer made right ASAP on his dime(had bad relay for headlights, and a loose jam nut on the FEL joystick which was fixed exactly 18 hours after delivery). The Ck30 is a beast, it has accomplished every task asked of it so far. I looked at blue, green and red tractors as well, everything I looked at was a quality machine. In the end Dealer, Product and Price (in that order) is what had me joining the pack. Good luck. If you have any specific questions fire at will. If you were closer I'd offer you a demo ride in my backyard.

 

[JerryG]

Kiotis are good tractors and if you have a good, local dealer they'd be on my list. The loader 'issue' could be a great negotiation point.

That's a key to a lot of the problems that happens. If you have an excellent dealer they can make almost any problem go away. I know from listening to the Kioti owners on TBN there are some dealer problems, but that can be said for any make in some areas. It seems that Kioti Corporate is trying to weed some of their non-excellent dealers out of the system and they need to be commended for that.

 

[bearhawk]

Should you buy a Kioti? ... In the end Dealer, Product and Price (in that order) is what had me joining the pack.

If I learned anything here it's what willie k said.

A good dealer is the most important. I got great support, and I would buy another Kioti from them without hesitation.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have a CK20 with cracked loader and I'd buy another without hesitation if mine fell into the ocean or a sink hole. It's well designed, well built and tough. I'd consider other tractors but having done that just a year ago I am unaware of any that would cause to me reconsider buying the Kioti again. (I'd look at the new TYMs however).

I have a great dealer but I am so far from the dealer that I have to do my own service and trouble shooting (with TBN support and phone calls to the dealer). I don't think the dealer is as important as the tractor itself in the purchasing decision. That might be different if you were looking at tractors in a part of the market where there were many similar capable machines but for me it was the CK20 itself that was the critical factor.

 

[cag]

Regardless of the brand, issues with your tractor would become real problems if you don't have the dealer support.. The dealer is your best asset, especially if your like me and know very little about tractors...cag

 

[ocaj11]

Nuke,

You MUST read the DK55 Axle Fix thread and all the threads about the DK55 smoking that can't be fixed and the threads about the DK55 and KL1595 loader issues.

Also, remember that most of these pro Kioti posts come from Kioti owners with 600 or less hours. Where are the 5,000+ hour Kioti tractor posts??

I had a Kioti. I tried to work with Kioti to resolve my issues with no luck. I sold the Kioti (almost gave it away) and bought a John Deere. In My Opinion, having owned both tractors, the John Deere is a much better tractor and is way more capable.

You have to make the decision that's right for you. I've added my experience to help you decide.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Donny,

At the moment, The link isn't working for me.....although a screen shot is worth many words.

Don

 

[depratt_equip]

Also, remember that most of these pro Kioti posts come from Kioti owners with 600 or less hours. Where are the 5,000+ hour Kioti tractor posts??

They're all to busy using their tractors.....

 

[tydp]

What I've leaned form this thread: in this age of "tractor political correctness", the worst possible thing you can do is make a disparaging remark about a minority tractor brand. It will release a firestorm of personal criticism and result in highly offended minority brand tractor owners. Of course you can say anything you want about the Big 3 or 4 with no worries about retribution or being call a "tractor racist".

Nuke,

You MUST read the DK55 Axle Fix thread and all the threads about the DK55 smoking that can't be fixed and the threads about the DK55 and KL1595 loader issues.

Also, remember that most of these pro Kioti posts come from Kioti owners with 600 or less hours. Where are the 5,000+ hour Kioti tractor posts??

I had a Kioti. I tried to work with Kioti to resolve my issues with no luck. I sold the Kioti (almost gave it away) and bought a John Deere. In My Opinion, having owned both tractors, the John Deere is a much better tractor and is way more capable.

You have to make the decision that's right for you. I've added my experience to help you decide.

 

[TBDonnelly]

What I've leaned form this thread: in this age of "tractor political correctness", the worst possible thing you can do is make a disparaging remark about a minority tractor brand. It will release a firestorm of personal criticism and result in highly offended minority brand tractor owners. Of course you can say anything you want about the Big 3 or 4 with no worries about retribution or being call a "tractor racist".

You must have missed the thread(s) from 'Ramon', a disgruntled Kubota L3130 owner that felt the tractor was severly underpowered.

Don

 

[Donnyj]

Whats wrong with a little bit of fun? A picture is worth alot.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

What I've leaned form this thread: in this age of "tractor political correctness", the worst possible thing you can do is make a disparaging remark about a minority tractor brand. It will release a firestorm of personal criticism and result in highly offended minority brand tractor owners. Of course you can say anything you want about the Big 3 or 4 with no worries about retribution or being call a "tractor racist".

You must have missed the thread(s) from 'Ramon', a disgruntled Kubota L3130 owner that felt the tractor was severly underpowered.

Whats wrong with a little bit of fun? A picture is worth alot.

Here is my take on this part of the thread. First it is no longer productive. Second, while there is some humor being injected by some folks, there is also some mis-direction.

Ramon was simply unreasonable and proved himself to be so in the eyes of Kubota owners because he didn't know what to expect from a tractor and therefore expected things to perform differently than they did. However, unlike some of the issues brought up in this thread, his tractor was not broken, it was just his opinion that it should have been different.

As for the photo. It should be made pretty clear to everyone that there are a couple diffrent types of tractors out in the real world and contract manufacturering is a common practice, but posting that photo does not mean that a Daedong (Kioti) is a Deere anymore than a Yanmar is a Deere. Take a look at Ebay and look for Yanmars and show me the Yanmars that have the designs of a Deere. They don't exist. Yanmar, like Daedong, is a 'contract' manufacturer for Deere for specific models for specific markets. A typical contract manufacturer (Daedong) is typically forbidden from using the technology or designs of their customer (Deere) in their own product lines. Further, it is typcial that the customer (Deere) would have its own designs and quality control in place. Other companies that do this, where a company will have another manufacturer build to their specs would include Case, Massy, etc.

This is dramatically different than the "badge engineered" brands such as some models of Cub Cadet, Branson, Century, Montana or Mahindra with buy some (or all, depending on the brand) of their tractors from other companies and the models are virtually identical except for color.

However, all that said, the fact that Deere chose Daedong to act as a contract manufacturer for some specific Asian market tractors does show there is some level of confidence in Daedong's ability to build a quality product.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Hey guys - remember me the original poster. Should I buy a Kioti or not?

Nuke,

If you have a specific question about a CK30(from your original post)...you may want to start a new thread. Open ended questions (Should I buy a Kioti?) go off track rather quickly and really have no definitive answers as you can see from the responses.

Choose a good dealer. Regardless of brand.

Don

 

[Hard]

Hey guys - remember me the original poster. Should I buy a Kioti or not?

Can't a crack in the loader be welded, sanded and painted or is it a structural design flaw that will break again? If you want to gripe about a loader you should all see the Bulldog 187 on my Shibaura! The tractor is fine (some normal modest moist spots for an older tractor) but the Bulldog was WAY underdesigned. It is bowing in the middle of the bucket and both side supports have crumpled. I will be cutting them out and replacing with 2"x5" square tubing. I have NOT been easy on it, but it has been the Achilles heal of the tractor set up since day one. Don't get me started on the loader hydraulic system - geeesshhh! The loader is making me consider selling the tractor and getting a Kioti.

Get the Kioti tractor, but take a pass on their loader. Why buy a brand new loader that may have a design flaw that Kioti has just acknowledged but has not come up with a good fix for yet. Buy an aftermarket loader, Woods, Bush Hog, etc...Nobody is complaining about those cracking.