Kioti - Good, Bad or Indifferent

[Justaplain]

Just got thru replacing all the bolts that hold the 1450 loader on my DK35. The book that came with the loader and tractor{new} called for 6 on a side. After pulling the whole frame we could find only 3 12x60's on each side {part #0569-2362} Can any of you dealers tell me how to find where the other 8 14x40s {#0549-2396} THAT ARE SHOWN IN MY BOOK GO?? . This is the same loader that the dealer would not take in trade for a new Rhino. The tractor is great but the loader is a 4000 Dollar boat anchor. bcs

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Did you tell all of the buyers that the seat mounting has a problem and may crack on some models? Of course you do.

In fairness the seat mount that cracked has been reported here on TBN less than a handful of times. The tractor is a very popular tractor and it is probably fair to say that the TC21/24 series tractors have sold more units that all the models of Kioti combined sell in a year, but there have only been a couple reports of this. Not really sure it falls into the same category.

Misleading? Whats misleading is leading someone on and telling them that a rather seriuous problem is somthing to ignore. Who knows, maybe the "fix" will be a hack job like was done to Highbeams tractor. It surly is reason to be cautious until you know what your getting into.

In fairness to Kioti, it is probably not a very good assumption to suggest that the "fix" will be a hack job. There is no question that the work done to Highbeam's loader was a hack job, but it seems like Kioti should be given the benifit of the doubt that it will come up with a professional repair to the loader. The loader is a nice design, I expect the repair, when it is available, will be representative of that design.

While I am confident that Kioti will be able to fix our cracking loaders I also would have a very hard time buying, or selling, a Kioti loader until the issue is resolved.

That is probably prudent, but I also would say that when the loader repair comes out, it would be hard not to recommend the loader when it is appropriate.

 

[rback33]

Misleading? Whats misleading is leading someone on and telling them that a rather seriuous problem is somthing to ignore. Who knows, maybe the "fix" will be a hack job like was done to Highbeams tractor. It surly is reason to be cautious until you know what your getting into.

Now Neil... I can agree to disagree, which we often do, but let's be real... I did not use the word ignore anywhere in my post. Nor did I imply it. I ACTUALLY implied that I would buy the tractor and Loader KNOWING there is a problem and KNOWING Kioti would take care of it properly when they release the "fix." For crying out loud.. since lots of people know the truth via PM's I'll open the bag... I work for a loader manufacturer... not the one that builds the KL130 obviously since it's Korean, but a loader manufacturer none the less. I work with Kioti in some way on a daily basis. I know very little about this specific issure other than they have been working on a resolution. I have not talked to anyone there about the issue in quite some time. Really, it's none of my business. The truth is they (consumer) are still buying a good product with a small design flaw. The chances of a catastrohic failure of that loader are nill.

 

[Dodgeram]

"In fairness the seat mount that cracked has been reported here on TBN less than a handful of times. The tractor is a very popular tractor and it is probably fair to say that the TC21/24 series tractors have sold more units that all the models of Kioti combined sell in a year, but there have only been a couple reports of this. Not really sure it falls into the same category"

With all due respect Bob, this to me would be a much larger issue than a cracked loader, no matter how many units were sold. Car manufacturers recall hundreds of thousands of vehicles for "..a couple of reports.." when safety is an issue.

As I've questioned Neil about the problem with the B3030, and only in the Kioti Forum, and not received a response, what is your take on the B3030 starting in gear issue? I understand Kubota issued new fender stickers to let the owners know there is a problem, but are they working on a permanant fix?

Also, and you may know the answer, does Kubota intend a recall all of the BX24's because of the plastic fender cracking. Or, as I understand it, "repair the fenders" under warranty when reported? What happens when the units go out of warranty?

Hmmm. maybe I should go over to the respective Buying Forums and say I'd never buy a Kubota BX-24, or B3030 or NH TC21 because of the reported problems I've "read" about. It ain't gonna happen. I guess this is what ticks me off about the people who come over here and pretty much infer that the KL-130 is a piece of cr... because they "read" some loaders were cracking. I own one, and it HAS NOT cracked.

Ok, off the soapbox.
Tom

 

[Bob_Skurka]

With all due respect Bob, this to me would be a much larger issue than a cracked loader, no matter how many units were sold. Car manufacturers recall hundreds of thousands of vehicles for "..a couple of reports.." when safety is an issue.

Well I happen to own one of that particular model, the issue is not a safety issue. The seat mount is bolted to a piece of sheet steel, that piece of sheet steel, on a couple tractors has started to cracked. It might make the seat wobble a bit if it got too bad, but it is not a big deal to replace. I'd guess that excess weight of the operator(?) or an operator rocking excessively might be the cause? I really don't know. But the seat belt would still hold you into the seat because it attaches at different points so even in an extreme case, the belt would hold you and the seat on the tractor. Seriously I think you need to take a look at it. It's not what you make it out to be.

what is your take on the B3030 starting in gear issue?

Honestly I don't know about it. But if they issued a decal as you suggest while they work on a fix, that is pretty speedy response. First, they acknowledged the problem, second they responded in 2 ways, one with a sticker to warn you every time you use the tractor, and another by saying they are working on a fix. That doesn't sound like it is anything other than 'responsible' to me. I'd give them credit for that. At least they admitted the problem, and apparently they did it quickly and followed up with 2 courses of action; that is more than some of their competitors have done.

does Kubota intend a recall all of the BX24's because of the plastic fender cracking.

I would doubt it. Nor should they. No more than any other brand would. If you dent the metal fender of your tractor would you expect the brand to recall your tractor to fix your dent? Obviously not. Why would a cracked plastic fender be different than a dented fender?

.

I defended Kioti in this thread and suggested that Neil over stated. I also suggest that you are over stating things and doing exactly what Neil did. What I think is appropriate is for people to remain reasonably objective. Neil did not and I think he was somewhat unfair in the wording he used.

 

[Hard]

Since there is an admitted cracking problem with Kioti loader why buy it. Spend your hard earned money on a compatible loader from another manufacturer without the cracking flaw. The CK is a nice tractor but don't buy the Kioti loader. Why buy a potencial problem that there is not even a good fix for yet, unless you count the repair highbeam received as a good fix.

 

[Highbeam]

"If you dent the metal fender of your tractor would you expect the brand to recall your tractor to fix your dent?"

Wouldn't that be grand. I have a few dents that I would like to go away. Those dang curly-q cedar branches like to reach up and bite sheet metal.

 

[Dodgeram]

"Seriously I think you need to take a look at it. It's not what you make it out to be"

Great point Bob. I have no first hand knowledge about the severity of the seat cracking (Only what I read). I don't own the unit and have only sat on one.

I also have no first hand knowledge of the B3030 issue (but I read it on TBN). I did test one before I bought the Kioti.

So I guess you're right " It's not what you make it out to be".

I also don't go over to the respective forums and post nonsense about things I've read (and have no 1st hand knowledge of.) Hint...Hint...Hint

BTW, and this is for that Cub Cadet guy, MY LOADER HAS NO CRACKS.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Great point Bob. I have no first hand knowledge about the severity of the seat cracking (Only what I read). . .

I also have no first hand knowledge of the B3030 issue (but I read it on TBN).

And it is valid to "read it on TBN" and take it as a problem if there is a pattern of similar reports. Reports here on TBN are just as valid as reports in commercial magazines such as Consumer Reports or in surveys such as JD Powers. The key is not to get bent out of shape when there the incident reports are very isolated. On the other hand, if the reports appear to be fairly common, then it should cause someone a reasonable level of concern.

No matter what the problem, there will always be some folks who have the problem, and there will always be some folks who don't have the problem. The real issue to potential buyers should be 'how common' is the problem, along with 'how serious' is the problem, along with such things as how is the problem being acknowledged or ignored, and what steps are being taken to fix it if it turns out to be a real problem.

Wouldn't that be grand. I have a few dents that I would like to go away. Those dang curly-q cedar branches like to reach up and bite sheet metal.

I agree! I don't have cedar but I'd gladly have the manufacturers replace my tires because the Hawthorn trees puncture them. And while we are at it, the shoe manufacturers should replace the soles of my shoes because I've had a few hawthorn barbs go right through the bottoms of a couple pairs

 

[Dodgeram]

TBN wouldn't let me post my last response.
So be it.
I will now join Kioti John in exile.
Tom

 

[Hard]

TBN wouldn't let me post my last response.
So be it.
I will now join Kioti John in exile.
Tom

I wish you all the best with your tractor and that loader dodgeram. Good luck.

 

[IslandTractor]

Can't we just get along? Maybe it is time to try a general amnesty so interested ex TBNers (self exiled or banished ) could rejoin. So long as we are not bickering constantly there is a lot to be learned from "warm" debates. Indeed, I think those types of discussions add a lot more to the fabric of TBN than the "which knob turns on the lights?" or "how many horse power for 10 acres" questions/answers or the fanatical debates on brands/oils etc.

I think it would help if we each took responsiblity for playing different roles periodically. Critics become mediators; enthusiasts accept that the home team is not always right; everyone tries to ignore or turn the other cheek to perceived slights and aims to be polite in debate. Kudos to Bob S. for a balanced post pointing out Neil's transgression/exaggerations in this thread. Yet, that doesn't mean a pile on is justified. Maybe just a simple "yep" if you agree and Neil will eventually get the message. Remember team, here are nasty green, red and blue things crawling around out there. We Orange tractor types need to stick together (even if black buckets are way way cooler than orange ones).

 

[tractorhill]

We have sold over 75 KL120 and Kl130 Loader we have NOT have the FIRST
incident of cracked loader frame so I think if we have a Problem I would seen at least one crack

 

[IslandTractor]

Tractorhill,

Have you checked under the plates of 75 loaders? There is no way to know about the cracking without removing the inspection plate.

 

[depratt_equip]

Just got thru replacing all the bolts that hold the 1450 loader on my DK35. The book that came with the loader and tractor{new} called for 6 on a side. After pulling the whole frame we could find only 3 12x60's on each side {part #0569-2362} Can any of you dealers tell me how to find where the other 8 14x40s {#0549-2396} THAT ARE SHOWN IN MY BOOK GO?? . This is the same loader that the dealer would not take in trade for a new Rhino. The tractor is great but the loader is a 4000 Dollar boat anchor. bcs

Give me a call and I can tell you where those go. Also let me know what you are having problems with. We sell Rhino too and they honestly don't perform any better than the Kioti.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Can't we just get along? Maybe it is time to try a general amnesty so interested ex TBNers (self exiled or banished ) could rejoin. So long as we are not bickering constantly there is a lot to be learned from "warm" debates.

Wow, Yea I can agree to let this die. I did not intend to start a fire storm here, just point out that this should not be brushed off as a non-issue. If it where me and I wanted a Kioti I'd just get an aftermarket loader from someone else.


For the record, the seat bolt issue on the TC's was very isolated, a handful of units at most. The problem with the joints on the hydraulic coolers and batteries that boiled over was much more wide spread, and yes - I do tell my customers to watch for these problems on their machines. The B3030 moving in gear is a non-issue in my mind, frankly I hate all the safty switches on these newer tractors. We just had two reports of BX plastic floor boards cracking - funny thing is that shortly after you started reading about this on TBN Kubota had already posted that they knew it was a problem, a fix is happening on the assembly line, and all cracked fenders are being replaced under warrenty with a new fender thats thicker and has ribbing under it. Seems to me that they must have known this was a problem and fixed it before it even started showing up online.

 

[tractorhill]

Tractorhill,

Have you checked under the plates of 75 loaders? There is no way to know about the cracking without removing the inspection plate.

Yes, Every time one come in for service. I have not look at all but the ones that we see has no cracks

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, Every time one come in for service. I have not look at all but the ones that we see has no cracks

That is interesting. When we collected data on TBN by asking owners to post once they had checked, there were something like 11 reports by TBN users by mid June. Estimate that as 20% positive (cracked) responses as I recall with a sample size of about 30-50 active CK20/CK30 owners who participate in these posts. I haven't gone back to the original posts so those are ballpark figures but 11/50 is statistically very different from 0/75.

So, maybe the loaders in Virginia are different or maybe this is a batch issue that did not affect your customers. Or, if you haven't inspected all 75 yet maybe you'll find some too. I think the main point is that there are a fairly large proportion of loaders with user documented cracks. We don't need to rehash the whole debate. While we are all waiting "patiently" for Kioti's fix, I think you are doing the right thing to pull off the inspection plate and check each of your customers as they come into the shop.

 

[crk133]

That is interesting. When we collected data on TBN by asking owners to post once they had checked, there were something like 11 reports by TBN users by mid June. Estimate that as 20% positive (cracked) responses as I recall with a sample size of about 30-50 active CK20/CK30 owners who participate in these posts. I haven't gone back to the original posts so those are ballpark figures but 11/50 is statistically very different from 0/75.

So, maybe the loaders in Virginia are different or maybe this is a batch issue that did not affect your customers. Or, if you haven't inspected all 75 yet maybe you'll find some too. I think the main point is that there are a fairly large proportion of loaders with user documented cracks. We don't need to rehash the whole debate. While we are all waiting "patiently" for Kioti's fix, I think you are doing the right thing to pull off the inspection plate and check each of your customers as they come into the shop.

or POSSIBLY your sample size was not representative of kioti loaders as a whole.........

 

[Steverino]

Can't we just get along? Maybe it is time to try a general amnesty so interested ex TBNers (self exiled or banished ) could rejoin. So long as we are not bickering constantly there is a lot to be learned from "warm" debates.

I agree, Dodgeram and Kioti John are both great contributors to this forum and their knowledgably input will be missed. I have learn a lot from the discussions that have gone on here, though occasionally they get heated, I would hope that those who are willing and able to express their opinions and share their knowledge will continue to do so in the knowledge that many of the more quiet members appreciate both them and their opinions. Thank You!, for your past participation, I for one hope that we hear more from you in the future. – Steve.