Kioti DK35SE Steering Problem

[behoof]

Hi all...

Hope someone can offer some help on this?

My DK35SE S/N GT6300177 was driven a distance on the road with the REMOTE lever engaged and no implement attached so it got pretty hot. When I got there nothing worked, no PTO, no FEL and no steering... the steering would work but it was like it had a mind of its own. I trailered it back to the farm and changed the transmission oil and filter and the PTO and FEL are now normal but the steering is very heavy then all of a sudden it will walk right or left to the stop on its own.

I'm at a total loss on what's up with this. I've read the manual that I bought for it a number of years ago but it really doesn't go into detail like other shop or overhaul manuals for other equipment I have.

I will be very grateful for any insight you all could offer.

 

[K5lwq]

I think the PTO being engaged without any thing attached did not cause any of the issues that you described. Perhaps it was low on fluid or filter was clogged?

 

[mudober]

Maybe too hot and a valve gaulded

 

[behoof]

I think the PTO being engaged without any thing attached did not cause any of the issues that you described. Perhaps it was low on fluid or filter was clogged?

K5lwq,

Please note that I changed my original post to read REMOTE engaged instead of PTO...

Thanks for the reply...
I had checked the fluid and I change the oil and filter twice a year... In one of the online chats someone had mentioned that if that remote lever is engaged and nothing is attached it can wreak havoc on these tractors... I don't know but I did find the lever engaged when I got it back to the farm and put it in neutral. As mentioned, I then changed the oil and filter because it had gotten hot enough to smoke.

So that's kind of where I am right now... everything works except the steering... as mentioned it is quite hard to steer at first then it will just walk to the right or left stop on its own if you let the steering wheel go.

John

 

[behoof]

Maybe too hot and a valve gaulded

Hi mudober which valve do you mean? Please note that I changed my original post to read REMOTE engaged instead of PTO...

John

 

[Harry in Ky]

An SE tractor would be mechanical shuttle, yes? Your tractor has a dual section hydraulic pump. One for the high pressure system and one for steering and transmission related clutch packs.

Running down the road with PTO engaged shouldn't adversely affect anything. That wasn't the cause of your problem. The filter is a possibility, yes, so changing that could well have a bearing on getting things working again. Changing the fluid most likely wasn't a part of it. Depending on how dirty it was that's a judgement call. Quite often when a hydraulic problem occurs someone will suggest "change the oil and filters". Filters I agree on, depending on how long it's been since done last. The oil, that's another matter. If the oil still looks good and doesn't appear contaminated with anything, I would leave that for later and concentrate on what's wrong first. When's the last time you heard of an engine problem being cured by an oil change?

Since most of your hydraulics are now working again, you probably solved that already. The steering symptoms you describe could be a steering valve problem. That's the sort of thing you get when the valve spool fails to center and return to neutral. The two problems could be related but not necessarily.

In order to make the case that overheating was involved, you would need to determine just how hot was the fluid. If it truly was that hot, something other than the PTO caused it. You can look into that after you figure out the steering issue.

 

[K5lwq]

K5lwq,

Thanks for the reply...
I had checked the fluid and I change the oil and filter twice a year... In one of the online chats someone had mentioned that if that remote lever is engaged and nothing is attached it can wreak havoc on these tractors... I don't know but I did find the lever engaged when I got it back to the farm and put it in neutral. As mentioned, I then changed the oil and filter because it had gotten hot enough to smoke.

So that's kind of where I am right now... everything works except the steering... as mentioned it is quite hard to steer at first then it will just walk to the right or left stop on its own if you let the steering wheel go.

John

I did not understand a remote valve was engaged without anything attached. I was thinking just the PTO. Definitely that would explain the problems.

 

[behoof]

I did not understand a remote valve was engaged without anything attached. I was thinking just the PTO. Definitely that would explain the problems.

K5lwq,

Yeah I originally didn't put "Remote" in my post, sorry...

Would you have any idea of where I need to look for a solution to this heavy, walks by itself steering?

As always they break when you need them most... bale moving time...

John

 

[K5lwq]

Since most of your hydraulics are now working again, you probably solved that already. The steering symptoms you describe could be a steering valve problem. That's the sort of thing you get when the valve spool fails to center and return to neutral. The two problems could be related but not necessarily.

Behoof, Harry had the right idea and I agree with him. I would be looking closely at the steering valve as the possible issue.

 

[behoof]

Behoof, Harry had the right idea and I agree with him. I would be looking closely at the steering valve as the possible issue.

Thanks for the reply... and about all I can do is "Look at it" no manual I've got goes any further than illustrated parts breakdowns...

Will post anything I find and hopefully help someone else... I'm sure I'm not alone...

 

[behoof]

An SE tractor would be mechanical shuttle, yes? Your tractor has a dual section hydraulic pump. One for the high pressure system and one for steering and transmission related clutch packs.

Running down the road with PTO engaged shouldn't adversely affect anything. That wasn't the cause of your problem. The filter is a possibility, yes, so changing that could well have a bearing on getting things working again. Changing the fluid most likely wasn't a part of it. Depending on how dirty it was that's a judgement call. Quite often when a hydraulic problem occurs someone will suggest "change the oil and filters". Filters I agree on, depending on how long it's been since done last. The oil, that's another matter. If the oil still looks good and doesn't appear contaminated with anything, I would leave that for later and concentrate on what's wrong first. When's the last time you heard of an engine problem being cured by an oil change?

Since most of your hydraulics are now working again, you probably solved that already. The steering symptoms you describe could be a steering valve problem. That's the sort of thing you get when the valve spool fails to center and return to neutral. The two problems could be related but not necessarily.

In order to make the case that overheating was involved, you would need to determine just how hot was the fluid. If it truly was that hot, something other than the PTO caused it. You can look into that after you figure out the steering issue.

Harry,

Thanks for the reply... that oil got pretty hot and as I think was mentioned PTO, FEL and Steering were all dead... that is, until I got it back here which gave it time to cool I think... now PTO, FEL are fine it's just the steering... very hard to steer until you feel it go off center then it walks itself to either the right or left steering stop...

the manuals I've got are almost useless... parts breakdowns is about it... the service manual I've got basically says, " Take this or that part off... then put it back on." Seriously, that's about all it offers...

can't find anything online that looks reasonable and the ones that are out there don't show a sample of their text so I know if it's what I need...

Anyway, I appreciate your help and I'll post anything that I find...

John

 

[mudober]

I have the same tractor. I understand what you mean. My dad was using mine one time and didn’t know he had the rear remote in the forward detent. It got hot and I’m shure it wasn’t good on it but it didn’t break anything luckily. I would raise the front wheels off the ground shut it off and see if you can turn them should turn hard but they should move left and right a little. Next start it at idle and listen to pump on frount right side. Put your hand on it and see if feels like it’s vibrating. If it’s ok replace steering valve seals are probably blown.

 

[behoof]

An SE tractor would be mechanical shuttle, yes? Your tractor has a dual section hydraulic pump. One for the high pressure system and one for steering and transmission related clutch packs.

Running down the road with PTO engaged shouldn't adversely affect anything. That wasn't the cause of your problem. The filter is a possibility, yes, so changing that could well have a bearing on getting things working again. Changing the fluid most likely wasn't a part of it. Depending on how dirty it was that's a judgement call. Quite often when a hydraulic problem occurs someone will suggest "change the oil and filters". Filters I agree on, depending on how long it's been since done last. The oil, that's another matter. If the oil still looks good and doesn't appear contaminated with anything, I would leave that for later and concentrate on what's wrong first. When's the last time you heard of an engine problem being cured by an oil change?

Since most of your hydraulics are now working again, you probably solved that already. The steering symptoms you describe could be a steering valve problem. That's the sort of thing you get when the valve spool fails to center and return to neutral. The two problems could be related but not necessarily.

In order to make the case that overheating was involved, you would need to determine just how hot was the fluid. If it truly was that hot, something other than the PTO caused it. You can look into that after you figure out the steering issue.

Hi Harry,
I don't know if you saw my change to my original post? When he was driving it down the road he had the "Remote lever engaged" . In my original post I had written PTO not Remotes. Any thoughts on it with that information?
Thanks, John

 

[Harry in Ky]

Big difference there. Remote valve stuck on can not only warm the oil up, it can fry a hydraulic pump. You most likely took some of the life away from it. Don't be surprised if you have more pump related problems down the road.

Interested to see what you come up with on the steering valve.

 

[behoof]

I have the same tractor. I understand what you mean. My dad was using mine one time and didn’t know he had the rear remote in the forward detent. It got hot and I’m shure it wasn’t good on it but it didn’t break anything luckily. I would raise the front wheels off the ground shut it off and see if you can turn them should turn hard but they should move left and right a little. Next start it at idle and listen to pump on frount right side. Put your hand on it and see if feels like it’s vibrating. If it’s ok replace steering valve seals are probably blown.

mudober:

Thanks for the info... I'm going after it later this AM... have a bunch of round bales to move first without the loader just when I need the DK, oh well, forks go on the back of one of the other ones.

I'm going to follow your thoughts on checking this out.

I did come up with a manual that's better than what I had. So that's something. I wanted to share it but the manual is over 12mb large so don't know if I can. Was hoping it might help someone else?

John

Big difference there. Remote valve stuck on can not only warm the oil up, it can fry a hydraulic pump. You most likely took some of the life away from it. Don't be surprised if you have more pump related problems down the road.

Interested to see what you come up with on the steering valve.

Big difference there. Remote valve stuck on can not only warm the oil up, it can fry a hydraulic pump. You most likely took some of the life away from it. Don't be surprised if you have more pump related problems down the road.

Interested to see what you come up with on the steering valve.

Harry,

I followed some advice from a fellow on another forum:

It sounds to me like the seals in the steering motor (valve) are shot.
You can disconnect the steering lines from the cylinder(s) then with the tractor running but not turning the wheel there should be no flow from the hoses,
as the wheel is turned there should be a metered amount of oil from one hose when the wheel is turned in one direction and none from the other hose and it should reverse when turned the other way.
Use care as that fluid is going to have good velocity and can make those hoses jump around a bit.

My results were:
Both hoses very loose, started tractor and had steady slow flow right front with -0- flow left and the steering wheel was turning to the right by itself at that time... shut it off then restarted and moved wheel left by hand and had oil from both hoses... at no time was there any great volume or pressure indicated at either hose... the FEL, PTO and Remote are all normal in action at this time...

So, at this time I'm looking for a Steering Unit for this tractor...

Will post results...

 

[Harry in Ky]

Look for another steering valve, Right move. There are no user friendly seals in there that will affect performance. Not in that style valve. The only seals involved are there to prevent external leaks. They have no bearing on directing oil flow to/from internal ports and passages. Anyone suggesting you go into that valve looking for seal problems is confused.

 

[mudober]

Yep I haven’t had one apart or looked at it. I was assuming it had internal seals

 

[behoof]

Look for another steering valve, Right move. There are no user friendly seals in there that will affect performance. Not in that style valve. The only seals involved are there to prevent external leaks. They have no bearing on directing oil flow to/from internal ports and passages. Anyone suggesting you go into that valve looking for seal problems is confused.

Thanks Harry,

Looking for a valve now... pretty sure I found a supplier but said to be out of stock...

We'll see what happens

 

[behoof]

Yep I haven’t had one apart or looked at it. I was assuming it had internal seals

mudober,

Agree... when looking at the manual I've got it appears all functions of the steering valve unit occur due to spools and other metal parts. As mentioned by Harry it would serve no good purpose to just replace the seals as the steer valve unit isn't leaking...

J

 

[LouNY]

A quick look in an orbitol steering motor;