Kioti CK27HST vs. LS J2030

[art]

You know after looking for six months far and wide in Texas (where I live) at just about every tractor, even a vietnamese place up here - I found it to be just the opposite.
But then again - I didnt look at them with bias.
That is to say I didnt already own a tractor and look at LS with bias.
I have had many locals look and drive mine (who have allot more experience than I) and come away with nothing but positive praises.

I don't own either currently so I went with no bias's on either brand. I was looking as a mechanic as to potential problems. Things I look for are standard features of other brands and there operation!

I don''t like levers and linkage that hang down below the tractors for limbs and other things to grab, the BX Kubota fan is quite well hidden but we hear of enough people with troubles there!
I don't like drag links below the front axle! That is normally the gauge as to how deep of ruts we can go though when it starts dragging and that might mean bending the drag link causing extra toe-out or worse yet to break it off.
Control positions were a flip of a coin as to who was best for the majority, labeling them well and how easy they were in relationship to the movement needed to operate.

Will both work, yes and they both will make some people feel they had died and gone to heaven for what they might doing. I just felt for what I looked at the LS is not up to par quite yet with the Kioti. Everyone has different levels and knowledge of mechanics and design and desire, I'm not faulting anyone for making their choice.

 

[rocknrod]

I don't own either currently so I went with no bias's on either brand. I was looking as a mechanic as to potential problems. Things I look for are standard features of other brands and there operation!

I don''t like levers and linkage that hang down below the tractors for limbs and other things to grab, the BX Kubota fan is quite well hidden but we hear of enough people with troubles there!
I don't like drag links below the front axle! That is normally the gauge as to how deep of ruts we can go though when it starts dragging and that might mean bending the drag link causing extra toe-out or worse yet to break it off.
Control positions were a flip of a coin as to who was best for the majority, labeling them well and how easy they were in relationship to the movement needed to operate.

Will both work, yes and they both will make some people feel they had died and gone to heaven for what they might doing. I just felt for what I looked at the LS is not up to par quite yet with the Kioti. Everyone has different levels and knowledge of mechanics and design and desire, I'm not faulting anyone for making their choice.

You own no Tractor with 4500 posts here? There is an obvious bias being shown.
Not sure what tractor your looking at as my LS4010 has none of these issues. And I litterally put the two brands together at the same lot here in DFW.
The choice was obvious.
Maybe you got the two confused as these pictures show:

 

[IslandTractor]

FYI, Art is a very experienced and long time tractor dealer. I'm not sure how many tractor lines he has sold but am pretty sure he carries at least Kubota.

 

[bluechip]

This segment gets a little confusing. We sell both Kioti and LS. The J2030 is a BIG SCUT and actually physically a little bigger than the Kioti CK20S which is a small CUT, but smaller than the CK27-35 series. We have sold a lot of CK20s to people with your size yard, desire to do some loader work etc. That said, the J2030 with 27HP would certainly drive a larger finish mower and provide the extra power to run other possible 3 point impments like a tiller or even a snow blower. being in the Arkansas River valley, I didn't think we would ever talk about snow blowers, but after this winter, what with global warming and all... Anyway. I have a J2030HST, CK20HST, CK27HST available to compare, test drive side by side. All have good incentives at present. I will go ahead and send a PM with some pricing too.

 

[art]

You own no Tractor with 4500 posts here? There is an obvious bias being shown.
Not sure what tractor your looking at as my LS4010 has none of these issues. And I litterally put the two brands together at the same lot here in DFW.
The choice was obvious.
Maybe you got the two confused as these pictures show:

Sorry to have offended you! As I said originally there are things that I look for and not all brands use the same controls from top to bottom of there line-up. The points I brought up was some of my thoughts on those two brands as I was looking at all the brands that had a equipment displayed. I was impressed as they did use the line-up studs on the wheels of the LS the same as Kubota, the end grease zerks on the loaders much the same as most other major brands.

 

[MossRoad]

Thread was pruned. Impolite comments were removed. Notices were sent. Please continue discussion.

 

[rocknrod]

Thread was NOT pruned - You left inaccurate information on the Dealers posts (ART) who Bashed LS with Inaccurate information.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thread was NOT pruned - You left inaccurate information on the Dealers posts (ART) who Bashed LS with Inaccurate information.

Art stated his opinion based on his own direct observations. How is that "bashing" or "inaccurate"? Art and I argue quite a bit on this forum and I am hardly someone to come to his defence as a knee jerk reaction. I thought his comments were really just statements of fact as he saw them and were no where near "bashing" in tone.

What I found kind of amusing is that Art, as a loyal Kubota dealer, doesn't like saying nice things about Kioti tractors but he gave a backhanded complement here. To say that the LS fit and finish were not as good as the Kioti is hardly bashing. Kioti fit and finish are generally not as good as Kubota but the Kioti tractors are extremely reliable and get the job done just as well for less money. That should probably be the objective for LS as well.

 

[Perplexed]

Thanks for the responses thus far, folks. I'm learning quite a bit from the information presented here. I do hope those responding can look at the input of others in an objective light and not be offended, but rather offer constructive responses as to why they might agree or disagree. Otherwise the thread can degenerate into a mess of useless diatribes, and I (and others) won't learn much.

As it is, I'll probably steer away from the Kioti tractors, simply because I feel they weigh too much for my primary purpose of mowing the three acres I do have. I'd like heft for occasional earth and snow moving, but not at the expense of damaged turf.

Again, I appreciate the information! :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

"Damaged turf" is not really such a common problem. All tractors will leave more marks than a Z turn or riding mower. Tire type and when/how you operate the tractor (eg wet conditions, four wheel drive, hard turns) are probably more important than a few hundred extra pounds of weight. Also, heavier tractors tend to have wider/larger tires so the actual pounds per square inch is only marginally more in most cases. The issue with lighter tractors and mowing is more that there is no benefit to hauling around all that weight if all you are doing is spinning a blade.

 

[Perplexed]

"Damaged turf" is not really such a common problem. All tractors will leave more marks than a Z turn or riding mower. Tire type and when/how you operate the tractor (eg wet conditions, four wheel drive, hard turns) are probably more important than a few hundred extra pounds of weight. Also, heavier tractors tend to have wider/larger tires so the actual pounds per square inch is only marginally more in most cases. The issue with lighter tractors and mowing is more that there is no benefit to hauling around all that weight if all you are doing is spinning a blade.

IT, apppreciate the comments. I can agree with the points you've made; however, in this case, the Kioti CK27HST, with a power output comparable to that of the J2030H, is about 1500 lbs heavier. Granted, it's a CUT while the LS is a SCUT, but that's why I'm here asking these questions - to learn these things. The CK20S is more comparable to the J2030 in terms of weight, but power is considerably less. For those reasons, I'd look at tractor makes other than Kioti - but I don't doubt for a moment they're very well-made, sturdy tractors.

As for "just spinning a blade," that will be the majority of my work. I just don't want to be caught with too small a tractor for when I do the earth moving I plan to do, or for when I'm clearing snow off my 150-yard-long driveway. I'd rather go a bit too big and have room for future expansion of my uses, than go too small and be looking at an upgrade next year or the year after. Hope that makes sense!

 

[art]

Art stated his opinion based on his own direct observations. How is that "bashing" or "inaccurate"? Art and I argue quite a bit on this forum and I am hardly someone to come to his defence as a knee jerk reaction. I thought his comments were really just statements of fact as he saw them and were no where near "bashing" in tone.

What I found kind of amusing is that Art, as a loyal Kubota dealer, doesn't like saying nice things about Kioti tractors but he gave a backhanded complement here. To say that the LS fit and finish were not as good as the Kioti is hardly bashing. Kioti fit and finish are generally not as good as Kubota but the Kioti tractors are extremely reliable and get the job done just as well for less money. That should probably be the objective for LS as well.

Island, I have sold rebadged Kioti's in the past as well as Mitshubitshi's, Mahindra, and now Yanmars badged as Cadet and will soon have some models of the LS under the CNH contract. We have sold many makes under different labels. When people come in I show all the options and let them make their own descisions as to what they want to spend and the make of their choice. In all the different sizes we sell and the variety of attachments we just have a better chance of finding what is right for the pocket as well as the job. Are there options to everything? If it's mechanical there is!

I again repeat, I didn't mean to offend anyone and that they where just my some of my observations.

 

[grainger12002]

You might look at Wallace web site, they had a nice ck30,low hours w loader for around $12k,might be a good fit and a good deal-they are in PA, not sure where you are, just something to consider

 

[rocknrod]

Yes well attempting to say he has no bias is also inaccurate. Especially when you dont tell people your a dealer who is selling "other" tractors.
There is an obvious financial bias there.

This is included in inaccurate information:

...I don''t like levers and linkage that hang down below the tractors for limbs and other things to grab, ...
I don't like drag links below the front axle! ...

I showed pictures to prove it.

 

[IslandTractor]

As for "just spinning a blade," that will be the majority of my work. I just don't want to be caught with too small a tractor for when I do the earth moving I plan to do, or for when I'm clearing snow off my 150-yard-long driveway. I'd rather go a bit too big and have room for future expansion of my uses, than go too small and be looking at an upgrade next year or the year after. Hope that makes sense!

If I were in your shoes and really did not think I would be working in fields or woods and my major tasks were mowing and snowblowing, I'd be all over a SCUT. Easier to manuver, store and less expensive to start with as well as having less expensive implements. I'd like one to supplement my DK40se.

I owned a CK20 which I loved but if lawn mowing as the main task I would go with a SCUT.

 

[ustmd]

Perplexed,


I have the Kioti 27HST and I am vey happy with it. We use on 10 acres, most for brush hogging.

When I my bought my tractor 2 years ago, I was looking at the usual suspects (LS was not part of the group) and narrowed it down to Kubota, Deere and Kioti. At the time, I took some advice from the forum--most of the machines are of good quality and equal capaibility, go with the dealer that will support you/get along with the best. In my area, it was Kioti, but in your area it might be LS.

 

[Gittyup]

While I have no opinion at all about LS, I do think this forum could be better served if dealers were clearly and uniquely identifiable from average consumers. This allows readers to better identify the source of opinion. With dealers you get a wealth of experience, and of course, some bias.

Sometimes, because dealers don't identify themselves as such, they come across as trying to undermine a competitor's product. Many dealers make it obvious through avitars, etc. But, others look (deliberate or not) like the average joe. Take Art, for example, someone new who doesn't know that he's a dealer reads his criticisms. He later finds out he's a dealer for a competitor. Comes off like he's hiding that fact and is completely biased. Rubs folks the wrong way. True or not, that's the effect is has.

 

[Perplexed]

Thanks for the additional comments, folks. With my test drives, talks with the local dealers, and the input I've gotten from this forum, I'm leaning toward the LS J2030H and Mahindra 2516. The former because it's easily the cheapest of all the tractors I looked at yet offers quite a bit for the buck; and the latter because it felt good to handle and the dealer, I think, will do their best to make my experience a good one. The Mahindra dealer also handles CCY, and they have a last-year SX3100 for a very good price, so I'm considering that one as well - interestingly, it's heavier than the other two, but it's no bigger than the 2516 length and width wise.

But now I'm wondering - what makes a tractor a SCUT instead of a CUT? Weight, power output, or length/width, or a combination, or all of the above? Where is the line drawn?

 

[bp fick]

But now I'm wondering - what makes a tractor a SCUT instead of a CUT? Weight, power output, or length/width, or a combination, or all of the above? Where is the line drawn?

It is extremely arbitrary. The Kubota BX has the small wheels/tires and low ground clearance, as does the JD 2305 and similar Masseys and Cubs.

Once upon a time, these units also had a somewhat limited Cat 1 three point hitch, but most has been somewhat upgraded. The lines are blurry. Since LS labels the J2030 a subcut, that is what it is, I guess, but it's all fuzzy and a bit arbitrary, as I said.

 

[MKIHALL]

Yes well attempting to say he has no bias is also inaccurate. Especially when you dont tell people your a dealer who is selling "other" tractors.
There is an obvious financial bias there.

This is included in inaccurate information:

I showed pictures to prove it.

I mean no offense here, but perhaps your comparing apples to oranges, when I looked at the J2020 and J2030, I was struck by the same things Art mentioned, the drive linkage to the front wheels hangs down below the frame and includes an unprotected knuckle joint (same as many SCUTS) that looks like it could be some trouble down the road, additionally the Hydro Fan is completely unprotected, facing the front end of the tractor (oviously if I choose LS, welded/bolted skid plates = easy fix)...perhaps your LS4010 has a different setup? I am an unabashed newbie (ck my threads for support on this assertion). just my:2cents:

As to Dealer Bias/Criticism I say bring it on, in any forum like this, whatever decision I make, I'd like to have my eyes wide open...so if it means I have to hear some brand bashing from competitors to get there I'm OK w/that, in fact I welcome it. If I choose a Kioti/Bobcat or TYM I don't think I'd mind if the LS dealer thinks I'm a fool or vice versa, I'm here to get as much info from as many sources as possible...