Kioti CK20S Hydraulic issues

[cjpenny89]

Hello
My cousin dropped of his CK20S and says please figure out what my dad did to this tractor. apparently the hydraulics were running slow on the both the back hoe attachment and the FEL but they were working.
His dad went and got all new filters and oil and changed out hoping to fix the problem of being slow. Well the tractor drives but has no hydraulics or power steering. I did some reading and wanted to know if the fuel cam gear or shaft was broke. I pulled the front loader off and misc. stuff to get to the pump. I pulled the inlet tube off and I can see down into the gear pump and it is turning and I can see some gears and hydraulic oil and the gear pump is spinning. Does this mean my pump is good and I have some other issue? Is it the gear pump bad and doesn't have the ability to move fluid? Any ideas what to do next since I verified the gear pump is turning?
any help on what to check next would be helpful.

 

[K5lwq]

On the bottom of the pump there is a priority flow valve for adding a loader. Check to make sure the valve is turned towards five circled in red below.

 

[cjpenny89]

thank you much after going out and not seeing that feature on my pump I took it off the tractor and I found metal shavings when I tore the cover off the pump.
The pump is shot the sleeve in the bottom of the pump shaft and pump shaft are all torn up.
I ordered a new pump this morning. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[brkdrvr]

thank you much after going out and not seeing that feature on my pump I took it off the tractor and I found metal shavings when I tore the cover off the pump.
The pump is shot the sleeve in the bottom of the pump shaft and pump shaft are all torn up.
I ordered a new pump this morning. I will let you know how it goes.

Hello, Just saw your post. Just a heads up. I have a CK20hst and am on my 4th hydraulic pump. The 1st one failed and I took to dealer & it was replaced with Kioti paying parts and me the “labor” (machine was just out of Wrnty). The dealer mechanic said the fuel cam was broken and pump was shot they never showed me parts or fully explained as apparently I was too dumb to understand. I started asking questions the parts and materials used and what labor was done to try and find out why & how failure occurred. I reviewed the invoice and asked where the charge for the hydraulic fluid was and was told it was fine and reused. I questioned this and asked about flushing system and filter changes and the conversation shut down. 5 years have passed and I have never been able to return to dealer. That said I have experienced the same symptoms you described with the pump failure, the hydrostatic trans works but all other hydraulics are dead; FEL , back hoe and 3pt hitch have no hydraulics. The 1st two times I replaced the pump I also drained the fluid and changed both the hyd filters and cleaned the main plugs magnet (quite a bit of metal). The third replacement I went a little nuts drained the fluid (there are 3 drain plugs; the big center one and two smaller outboard ones, changed both filters and sourced the exact shell spirax fluid specked by Kioti (The first two times I used a shell Rotella HD fluid used by many Kioti owners) I also sourced a bypass hose for when the back hoe is not hooked up to insure the if the back hoe was not installed and the hydraulic lever got pulled back to the “B” position the pump did not “dead head” as I suspected this might have contributed to previous failures I was clearing a lot before the 1st failure and the lever got pulled back by a vine (not sure how long I ran like that). I re installed the 4th pump, hooked up the back hoe and ran the machine for 30 minutes moving all functions through full range of motions and then shut down and fully drained hydraulics and cleaned main plug magnet (found much less metal, hopefully stuff I flushed out), changed both hydraulic filters again and refilled with new Spirax. I now never run with out the rear hydraulic bypass hose if the back hoe is not hooked up. I have been told by reputable dealers and hydraulic mechanics that there is a relief valve and the selector lever should not cause failure. I remain un-convinced for several reasons; 1. The machine clearly labors if selector lever is pulled back to “B “ when rear hydraulics are not in use (unless bypass hose is in place). 2. The Kioti corp rep was very defensive when I questioned the existence/effectiveness of the relief valve. 3. The Kioti practically hung up on me when I asked why some Kioti dealers actually sell pre-made up bypass hoses to prevent this problem if it does not exist (strangely the pre made hose I found and purchased online from a Kioti dealer was gone offline a week later when I checked). I have now run the tractor @ 50 hours and am getting ready to change hydraulic fluid and filters again, really hoping to not find much metal. Sorry for the long post not trying to freak you out but I would strongly recommend trying to flush all shrapnel from the system as I am fairly sure the was at least the secondary source of my problems. I am fairly confident that the “deadheading” issue was/is the primary cause, wether it was the result of a failed or incorrectly adjusted “relief” valve or Kioti’s design flaw remains to be determined. I know the “deadheading” issue was present as soon as I had the back hoe installed about 2 weeks after purchasing new from dealer. Good luck with repair.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

^^^^^ Wow, that's a great idea! I have accidentally bumped the remote lever into a detent, but fortunately was able to hear the stress put on the system. It is a stress on the system / pump for sure!

I am fearful that someday I won't hear it with the engine in higher rpm's. (Especially with bad hearing to begin with). This is a great cheap solution!

Thanks!

 

[brkdrvr]

I agree I am pretty sure the start of all this was the incident where the lever got pulled back by heavy brush and vines when I was bush hogging a lot and did not hear the dead heading quick enough due to the noise from the engine and bush hog deck. The additional failures I attribute to the incompetence of the Kioti dealers “mechanic” what idiot reuses hydraulic fluid and filters contaminated by a grenaded pump (as an aside the dealer billed me $,1700 and Kioti paid for the Hydraulic pump and fuel cam plus gears & misc parts). I mentioned that when GM replaced my Suburbans transmission under warranty the tech said they might have to replace all the trans fluid cooling lines, trans cooler and the radiator (trans fluid goes through passengers side of radiator tank prior to entering cooler in front of radiator) if they were not fully confident of getting all contamination from the trans failure with the flush. The Kioti idiot scoffed and laughed, GM warranted the new trans for 100,000 I’m still driving 150,000 later. Pretty sure that 20” piece of hose and handful of fittings cost me @ $30.00 when I bought it and would have saved me thousands of $$ and hundreds of hours had it been provided when I bought the Kioti backhoe new from the Kioti dealer for cash. Will be disappointed with the dealer and Kioti for life.

 

[cjpenny89]

OK so I have replaced the pump and got it primed but I only have partial hydraulics and when the front end loader or back hoe move it has no power and you may have to help it move by hand.
I pulled the valve spool out and tore it all down looking for a blockage in the system. I also tore the flow control valve apart looking for metal shavings. I am wondering if I had screwed up the pump running the tractor before I figured out how to prime the pump? Is it possible that the pump isn't pumping enough fluid?
Any suggestions on where to start? I mean at least I have some hydraulics but the FEL wont lift it will only tilt the bucket and that will barly move. The rear back how will not lift but will move side to side but I can hold it from moving. The level feet will move to the ground but when you want to lift them will barley lift an inch off the ground and you have to help lift it back in the up position. Do I have a plugged or restricted hydraulic port somewhere or is my new pump bad? my power steering does work now that I got the pump in installed.
Is there a pressure relief valve somewhere that could be stuck in the open center position? any help please

 

[brkdrvr]

Wow, You are beyond my experience I have only replaced hydraulic pumps, drained system , changed filters, replaced a leaking cooler and repaired a broken FEL control. I would try to contact who ever you bought the pump from assuming they are Kioti dealer if they are unable to or refuse to help you could try to directly contact Kiotis tech support ( they will likely try and Ben you to an "authorized dealer") if you can't talk your way into some tech support help, you could try emailing Michigan Iron and Equipment they are a authorized dealership that advertises on tractor by net and sells on the net, I buy most all of my Kioti parts from them and have found the owners ( Bob Piro and his wife) to be very knowledgeable and helpful. I would email him and explain what is happening and see if he can help diagnose your problem. It sounds like either your pump is not getting hydraulic fluid in from low fluid or restriction, something is restricting output which i think you could hear as strain or your pump has issues, curious where your hydraulic selected lever is set, front rear or center? ( I'm not sure about you damaging from lack of prime unless you did not refill the hydraulic fluid after replacing pump) my first hydraulic failure was supposedly caused by the fuel cam breaking near the end where the gear that drives the hydraulic pump attaches, the tractor still ran and drove but smoked and FEL 3pt hitch were dead. At the start of failure of other pumps hydraulic were weak like you describe, the 3pt hitch would lift but I could hold it down with my foot. Sorry to not be more helpful my money in on Bob Piro.

Good luck

 

[cjpenny89]

I bought the pump from Michigan Iron and Equipment I also live in Michigan. The Fuel cam isn't broke as I checked the pump was spinning prior to removing the old one and I checked that it wasn't broke when I had the pump off. It is defiantly week and I am getting frustrated as this repair is for my cousin. all filters and oil was changed. Since I have lack of powre at both the back hoe and front end loader I was hoping to have a popped relief valve that wont seat or narrow down a blockage that might be in place since the pump feeds the spool and the spool fees the FEL and the Rear back hoe. my pump was bad so I could have metal shavings some where.

 

[cjpenny89]

well after lots of extra work I caused myself I have it fixed. when I found the pump all tore up I went and took the priority valve apart and when I put it back together I didn't tighten the pressure relief valve in. Not sure how it wasn't leaking as it was only just started in the threads. I tightened it back in and everything worked. I wish I would not have screwed that up the first time around it would have saved me a lot of work. But it is working now!
Thanks everyone!