keeping a pond full

cchoate · Nov 28, 2002

The pond is man-made but the first 2 summers it stayed full with moderate rain. Other ponds in my area all have had the same problem. When you guys say dam, is that the over-flow? I do have a good one but I don't see any evidence of it leaking.
The pond used to be crick-fed (by diverting from a natural overflow) but the town built a new bridge so now it flows alot swifter and dosen't reach the overflow.

lloydp · Nov 28, 2002

Web site for Bentonite that Bird and BB TX were talking about. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.texassodiumbentonite.com/>http://www.texassodiumbentonite.com/</A>

Looks like it can be applied without draining the water, but I don't see how you could get a very even layer.

Lloyd

Robert_in_NY · Nov 28, 2002

If you dump it in and spread it around by dumping some all the way around the pond it will disperse in the water and settle out on the pond floor and walls giving a nice layer.

DCJL · Nov 29, 2002

I used pelletized betonite that was relatively evenly spread with a large hand held seeder that costs about $30 in a good tractor/garden store. It certainly worked well. To get the best seepage control, follow the betonite with a layer of spread sand, it packs the betonite down.

Von · Nov 29, 2002

Will the betonite work in a temporary pond. I have an icerink in my back yard that is 90' x 145' and is grass all year untill the winter. This all slopes to the back corner and I have a 8" drain pipe in it. I just put the plug in, in the fall and catch the rain water. But I have a few leaks and was wondering if the betonite would work to stop the leaks, but still let grass grow in the summer? Thanks for any info on this.

DCJL · Nov 29, 2002

My guess would be not. The betonite forms a kinda thick sludgey claylike surface that would probably choke the grass. I may be wrong, but I would not want to try it on my grass.

Bird · Nov 29, 2002

Von, since I've never actually used the stuff myself, only checked into the possibility of using it to seal a pond on my place and one on my brother's place, I can't say for sure, but from what I found out about it, I agree with DCJL. It's a type of clay that shrinks when dry and swells when wet (if I remember right, it's the same stuff that's used as "drilling mud" when drilling oil wells) and I don't think you'd want it on your grass.

Von · Nov 29, 2002

Bird, Do you think I could put a layer of it down, and then place 2-4" of top soil on top of it? Then plant the grass seed in the top layer. Would this work or not? Also what does it cost and how much do you need down to make a water tight layer of it? Thanks for your replies.

Bird · Nov 29, 2002

Von, I think that would work, but keep in mind that I'm speculating on something I know very little about. It's been at least 6 or 7 years ago when I checked into it and decided it was just too expensive for us to use on our ponds. And if I remember right, about a quarter inch was all they claimed was necessary to seal a pond. However, there are several types or varieties of bentonite, and I just don't remember which type that was that a company in east Texas could provide. You might want to look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.texassodiumbentonite.com/index.htm>this link</A> for a little more information, and of course, if you do a search for "bentonite" on google.com, you'll probably find more than you want to know (or have time to read)./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I really doubt that you're going to want to use the stuff.

cchoate · Nov 30, 2002

Will betonite help clear up a muddy pond? I have bull-head and they stir the bottom.

wroughtn_harv · Nov 30, 2002

I do know that if you go ask for bentonite for a pond you will pay much more for it than if you buy it as drilling mud. I have one bud who needed it for a pond and got it from another bud of mine that has about four of those directional drilling rigs. He saved a ton for supposedly the same stuff.

njrqs · Nov 30, 2002

Yeah Bird, now u r catching on to the lingo thing !!

Cheers big ears

fishman · Dec 3, 2002

Bentonite will not clear up a pond muddied by bullheads. The only permanent solution is to eliminate them. This could be accomplished by draining the pond, using rotenone(licensed applicators only), or if predators are not present and the bullheads are small, stocking bass or the like.

If it isn't biologically suspended turbidity, rather electrostatically suspended (clay particles repel one another), then treatment with aluminum sulfate (alum) is a solution.

I think there were some discussions about this previously. For those who want some more fish info, a decent site for information is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://pondboss.com>http://pondboss.com</A>

Bentonite can be applied to the surface of leaking ponds in an attempt to seal it. However, it is best applied to the dry pond bottom and covered with topsoil or incorporated (by tilling) into the topsoil. Application rates range from 2 to 8 lbs/square foot, and at a cost (in central TX) of $150/ton delivered, isn't cheap.

Around my area, ponds or lakes that lose 5' in the summer are considered normal. None stay completely full without additional water inputs, and quite a few go dry or almost dry. The single best solution for water loss, in my opinion, is a good well.

cchoate · Dec 3, 2002

I did stock some smallmouth this year but I think there's to many bullhead to eat. Someone suggested a few pike but they would eat everything else.
I also have seen "clearpond" at TSC for clearing muddy ponds. Does this stuff really work?

MossRoad · Dec 3, 2002

Around here they recommend stocking ponds with bass, bluegill and channel cats. They strongly suggest not to stock bullheads just for the reason you stated... they stir up the bottom. Channel catfish don't stir up the bottom and are good eating. If it was my pond, I'd consider the rotenone route as suggested. Wipe the pond out and start over with a mix of fish recommended by your local county extension office.

Robert_in_NY · Dec 3, 2002

Not for your situation. You have bullhead which are constantly going to stir up your pond keeping it muddy. The only way that I know of is to remove the bullhead from the pond. A 6" pump will take care of the water then you can hop in with a couple buckets and pick out the fish you don't want. Works great if you have another source of water where you could pump more water back in once you had as many bullhead out as you can find. I have a channel my pond drains into. It is 20' wide by 1500' long and goes from 1' to 4' deep on the farthest end which then goes into another pond. If I drained my pond I can just turn the pump around and pump back into it. Luckily, I have not had to drain the pond again since we got done building it.

DarinRay · Dec 4, 2002

Man Robert that's just the kind of pond overflow I would like to have....One problem though my pond's make-up in summer is a trickle and not a nice steady flow through out the year. THere are a couple ponds up the streat a ways that have nice sized overflows running into the next jsut like you described and everytime I go by them I just ahhhhhhhhhhhh darn it.

Darin

rlk · Dec 4, 2002

Fishman, I just finished a pond in central NC. We had a lot of rain before I could get the banks and surrounding area planted in grass, so I have a lot of muddy water.

A publication I found on the NCSU website states 3 ways to clear muddy water, assuming it is runoff and not being created by bullheads or livestock:

1. Apply 100 pounds of cottonseed meal and 40 pounds of superphosphate per surface acre to clear up muddy water. Do not use this treatment during the summer months because of the danger of depleting the oxygen.

2. Spread 7 to 10 bales of hay and 40 pounds of superphosphate per acre over the surface. Do not use this treatment during the summer months because of the danger of depleting the oxygen.

3. Apply 300 to 500 pounds of gypsum per surface acre. The gypsum should be ground and spread over the pond's surface.

I have about a 2 1/2 acre pond, so option 2 would be very difficult, so I ruled it out. Spreading gypsum over the entire surface seemed to be cumbersum, plus I have no idea where to find gypsum, so ruled out option 3.

I'm looking into option 1. I found cottonseed meal and superphosphate at a local farm supply. The price for enough cottonseed meal and superphosphate is around $200.

In researching how to clear the muddy water, no one I talked to had ever heard of using cottonseed meal and superphosphate. Do you have experience with it? If so, how is the material applied? I assume it is spread rather than just dumped in.

I want to clear the muddy water before stocking the pond this spring. Any help you can provide is much appreciated.

Robert_in_NY · Dec 4, 2002

We are planning on building a large duck pond on some adjoining land once we get it bought. Where we live is all natural springs. The springs come out above ground here and is actually a pain. The ponds and channels are the only way to control the water and keep the ground somewhat dry. However, it is nice when I hear everyone complaining about not being able to water their yards because of the drought and I watch the water continue to pump into the pond. Right now the pond is pushing around 100 gpm. Summer it slows down to about 20 gpm. Also, being spring fed it is wonderfully cold during the summer