just a quick question
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ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
I don't know the spec, but it's hard to measure those small resistances accurately. Symptoms sound like glow plugs so first check that the plugs are getting voltage both during the glow cycle AND while cranking. if that checks out OK the next step would be to measure current (amps) to each plug.
FYI, there have been several faulty ignition switches reported on this list and these bad switches prevented glow during cranking; the symptoms were like yours. Some replaced their switches and some just disassembled and cleaned them.
FYI, there have been several faulty ignition switches reported on this list and these bad switches prevented glow during cranking; the symptoms were like yours. Some replaced their switches and some just disassembled and cleaned them.
MichiganIron
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You should find the original selling dealer and talk to them. There were some glow updates on the early CK20S Tractors to improve cold starting. It will depend on the serial number of the tractor, so have it ready when you contact the dealer.
malk315
Silver Member
I had a brand new plug that I believe is for CK20S as it didn't work in my CK20 (Kioti advised dealer on incorrect part but eventually located the right one).
I ohmed it on the bench brand new out of the bag and got 1.0 ohm with my cheaper Wavetek manual range meter and essentially the same reading with a more expensive Extech auto ranging meter from my work that's accurate to at least milliohms.
So at least for this particular brand new plug it was 1 ohm. This means since V=IR at 12 volts it will be drawing 12 amps on the battery. Since vehicle batteries are designed to deliver high CCA it seems reasonable. Also as the part heats up the resistance probably goes up and draws less current etc. Have no idea how much the resistance should go up as the part get used and becomes older etc. Never got a chance to ohm the ones that came out.
I'm actually bummed they changed the glow setup for 20S tractors -- I really like the manual control of glow with the key switch on the original CK20 -- the user can apply glow as one sees fit!
Good luck w/ this.
I ohmed it on the bench brand new out of the bag and got 1.0 ohm with my cheaper Wavetek manual range meter and essentially the same reading with a more expensive Extech auto ranging meter from my work that's accurate to at least milliohms.
So at least for this particular brand new plug it was 1 ohm. This means since V=IR at 12 volts it will be drawing 12 amps on the battery. Since vehicle batteries are designed to deliver high CCA it seems reasonable. Also as the part heats up the resistance probably goes up and draws less current etc. Have no idea how much the resistance should go up as the part get used and becomes older etc. Never got a chance to ohm the ones that came out.
I'm actually bummed they changed the glow setup for 20S tractors -- I really like the manual control of glow with the key switch on the original CK20 -- the user can apply glow as one sees fit!
Good luck w/ this.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
You are correct; resistance changes as the glow plug heats up, it changes a LOT. I didn't see Kioti data but here is a page from a Mercedes Diesel manual:
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/MBZ_Glow.pdf
Your static measurement shows the plugs are not open circuit, but that's about all. The next step is to measure steady-state current. If that's OK, you may need to clean the plugs and the plug holes. They can get sooted up to the point the spray mixture doesn't reach the hot surface. Alternatively, poor injector spray pattern can cause these symptoms.
But first, are you certain that the glow plugs are energized both during the glow cycle AND crank?
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/MBZ_Glow.pdf
Your static measurement shows the plugs are not open circuit, but that's about all. The next step is to measure steady-state current. If that's OK, you may need to clean the plugs and the plug holes. They can get sooted up to the point the spray mixture doesn't reach the hot surface. Alternatively, poor injector spray pattern can cause these symptoms.
But first, are you certain that the glow plugs are energized both during the glow cycle AND crank?
I pulled the plugs and cleaned them they were not dirty. When I turn the switch to the glow plug setting I'm getting 11.7 volts to the plugs. I haven't tried cranking the engine over but after a few seconds the relay kicks off and no voltage to the glow plugs and the glow plug light does not light up during cranking. I will see if they are getting voltage to them when it cranks. Thanks for the help it is greatly appreciated.
JoelD
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Did they get hot?
Coyote machine
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When did the hard starting begin? When does it occur? Does it happen only when cold, at first start of the day? Does the smoke have a specific color? Are you loosing any fluids? Oil? Coolant? Are subsequent starts, after the first of the day, smoking too? Less so/ more so?
Dmace
Elite Member
Thats sounds like you don't have the update MichiganIron (Kioti Dealer) mentioned for the CK20S. Either that or a faulty glow plug timer.lunbrjck said:
It had been getting harder to start over a period of time. The smoke is bluish white and after it has warmed up it starts fine with no smoke. It is kept in a heated garage and has never spent a night outdoors. Fluid levels are all ok and no leaks of any kind. I will make a call to my dealer the first of the week and see what they say about the update on the plugs and talk to the mechanic there. I will keep you posted and thanks again for the help.
Western
Super Member
My DK35 acted similar at 220hrs, I ran 2 bottles of Seafoam through it and the smoke has became almost like the day I bought it. Starts allot better too. I was told to try this by a JD mechanic:ashamed:, so I don't know if it is a common remedy or an excepted one, but it worked on mine. May not help you any.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
The MBZ Diesel community likes a product called Diesel Purge:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1811.html?Opendocument&land=DE
You can add it to the tank or feed it at 100% into the lift pump. It cleans injectors amazingly well but can't fix mechanical issues.
Back on the glow system, Kioti has used several different circuits. In some, glow continues after the light goes out. In some the light is always on if the plugs are energized. In some, the "start" signal (to energize glow relay during crank) just taps off the wire to the starter. In others there is an additional "glow during crank" contact within the switch (that was my problem) for this signal. But in all cases, the plugs should be energized while you crank.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1811.html?Opendocument&land=DE
You can add it to the tank or feed it at 100% into the lift pump. It cleans injectors amazingly well but can't fix mechanical issues.
Back on the glow system, Kioti has used several different circuits. In some, glow continues after the light goes out. In some the light is always on if the plugs are energized. In some, the "start" signal (to energize glow relay during crank) just taps off the wire to the starter. In others there is an additional "glow during crank" contact within the switch (that was my problem) for this signal. But in all cases, the plugs should be energized while you crank.
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Coyote machine
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From the above, and your original description it sounds like you are experiencing a 'cold start' issue. Not so much as the name implies but more a first start of the day issue, related to your glow circuit, as suggested by several posters. Since your tractor is stored inside like mine in a heated garage it should start first time of the day with virtually no problems- but this is obviously not the case. How long ago did this problem begin- weeks, months?
Verifying whether your tractor has the update mentioned would be a wise place to begin.
Did you change the fuel filter at the most recent recommended service interval?
What do you use for diesel? Do you store it on site? Are you using 'cut' fuel for the winter months? If you store it on site is it in or outside? Do you use any additives?
Yes fuel filter has been changed as all fluids and filters at the service interval. Change engine oil once a year even if the hours don't call for it. The fuel is commercial on road fuel and I only buy 5 gallon at a time, keep my tank full or almost full and use power service additive since new.
