Buying Advice John Deere compared to Kubota

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I may have posted this somewhere before, but I now own my third Kubota giving me three sitting under my shelter at one time. I had a JD 5525 for four years and a Case no idea the model over 20 years ago but about 50 hp. I never had any issue with one Kubota, one is only a year old but issue with standard seat, one Kubota M6800 transmission issues twice with a whining noise in it with last repair. The case never had any issue with it and the JD had a easy to replace sensor on the engine to replace and think on issue with it. There are many ways to judge a tractor and just from operator comfort and the feeling of the tractor during operation the Case and JD both were more comfortable and feel more solid when operating them. To me the M6800 has a weak transmission for heavy loads (within what it is rated for) using a disk for steady work for few hours had a gear to break one time and think it was a bearing the second time. to me Kubota's just don't have the same confidence and comfort level to me as my others have. My last purchase is a Kubota and I really rather had the JD 4000 series but their cab doors with no windows to open but the rear just will not give enough air flow not to use a/c on mild days. Only reason I bought the Kubota over the JD.

Thanks for sharing your experience Ken.

 

[mo1]

That is an easy question, I bought a Deere as Kubota no longer makes the kind of tractor I was looking to get. I got a 2WD open station 5075E, this is about as simple of a tractor as you can buy today and other than it being a Tier IV machine, was exactly what I was looking for.

 

[rScotty]

That is an easy question, I bought a Deere as Kubota no longer makes the kind of tractor I was looking to get. I got a 2WD open station 5075E, this is about as simple of a tractor as you can buy today and other than it being a Tier IV machine, was exactly what I was looking for.

We started out looking at Deeres - we always do. But Deere no longer made a medium size TLB, and had also fallen behind in the world of HST transmissions. So we went over to Kubota because they have put a lot of development into heavy-duty, medium size, & multi-use TLB style tractors.

Neither Deere or Kubota is cheap, and TLBs can break anyone's budget - but this was to be a gift to ourselves in retirement.

The Kubota is awesome and absolutely reliable - it really couldn't be much better. We use it constantly. Check out the Kubota TLBs sometime. But in a funny way I think we always be a Deere fans. There's no reason for it, just who we are.
rScotty

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

But Deere no longer made a medium size TLB, and had also fallen behind in the world of HST transmissions.

Scotty please explain what you mean here because Deere does make a medium size TLB in both the 3E and 3R tractors and the Deere HST's are probably the best in the business.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I'm new to tractors. How come you choose John Deere over Kubota? I'm not trying to start a war like Ford vs. Chevy, I honestly don't know very much and I'm trying to learn more. I have heard that Kubota is as good as John Deere but around 10% cheaper for the equivalent tractor, I'm not sure if that is true or not. In my area, I have Kubota and John Deere dealers and both have good reputations.

My neighbor ww2, islands in Pacific, hated japs with a passion. Had over 1000 cows and thousands of acres. Bought a big JD cab tractor. Stayed in the shop, like 11 times in two years. Bought new. Finally told JD to just sell it. Neighbor, same fella, bought a 100 hp kubota and said it's never been to the shop since I bought it. JD is green painted junk riding or coasting on an old wave of good reputation. Saw it coming years ago with the plastic hood stamped sheet metal lawn mowers. We did have two of the HD JD mowers here for years. New JD mowers are a different color than those at home depot, Lowe's, wall marks, but what is different besides the paint? Oh wait, yellow seats.

 

[rScotty]

Scotty please explain what you mean here because Deere does make a medium size TLB in both the 3E and 3R tractors and the Deere HST's are probably the best in the business.

hmmm. I'm not aware of any small TLBs that are currently being made by JD. Up until 2012 they used to make the JD110TLB. It was a nice machine although with some problems. John Deere discontinued it instead of improving it. Kubota went the other route with their TLBs. They are now on 2nd generation TLBs.

I think you might be confused on Tractors vs TLBs. In that you have good company. What happened is about 4 or 5 years ago some dealers started calling their tractors equipped with a an add-on loader and an add-on backhoe implement as TLBs. But that's just sales hyperbole.

A TLB is different from a tractor. They are generally a little shorter, much more heavily built, have a more powerful loader and hoe, & weigh almost twice as much. They also cost substantially more than a tractor with implements.
TLBs are designed from the ground up for the stress of a loader & backhoe It's true that on some TLBs the backhoe can be removed and replaced with a 3pt hitch. Puttin on a 3pt makes a TLB into a sort of tractor, but without the long wheelbase and weight distribution that makes a tractor nice for working all day in the field.

A TLB is better for back and forth dirt moving work.
TLBs are squat, wide, heavy, and powerful. And to me they are also less comfortable than a tractor
Both can do either, of course. But both are specialized.

Or look at it this way... A tractor is built to pull things. Sure you can add a loader and a backhoe as accessories to a tractor but that isn't the whole story.
A TLB is built to lift and dig. The loader doesn't come off, and on many of them the backhoe doesn't come off either.

So the basic machine starts as either a tractor or a TLB. Either can mount attachments so that it can do some of the other ones' jobs, but putting a 3pt onto a TLB doesn't make it tractor, and putting a loader and backhoe onto a tractor doesn't make it a TLB. Different from the frame up.

For an example of what I mean, compare the old JD110 with the JD 3E & 3R. Look at the machine weight & FEL lifting capacity.

Or for a better comparison on today's market, look at the Kubota M6060 Tractor and compare with Kubotas M62 TLB.
The Tractor weighs 5400 lbs, the TLB right at 9000.
Physically the TLB is a little smaller than the Tractor, but it can lift substantially more. They are built differently for different primary purposes.

This isn't Kubota vs. the world. I love those JD110 TLBs. Google them and have a look.
Fact is, we were going to buy the JD110 back in 2007, but it was having problems right when the Kubota TLB came out.
Sure wish JD had kept making the 110 though.

Oh, on your other question about the HST tranny. I'm curious what makes you say that JD HST are the best in the business? Is that factual or a bias?
I think JD HST are fine myself, but don't know enough about HST in general to say that one is better than another. But lets assume just for argument that JD and Kubota HST are equally durable.

Kubota offers a fingertip range splitter on some of their HST transmissions - and nobody else does. Kubota calls it the HST+ version & it gives the operator a choice of 6 ranges in forward and reverse. That makes Kubota's HST a lot more efficient, and is part of why I said that Kubota was leaving the rest of the HST world behind.
The other reasons have to do with operator-adjustable features of their HST+. Things like adjustable attack rate and throttle-to-load rpm matching that are part of Kubota's HST+ package.

Go try one. It's called HST+, and it is not earth-shaking new technology. Evolution, not revolution. But nobody else offers those features for their HST transmission. That's all it is. I imagine others will someday and maybe even better, but right now Kubota is leaving them behind. HST+ sure works well.

rScotty

 

[RalphVa]

I'm new to tractors. How come you choose John Deere over Kubota? I'm not trying to start a war like Ford vs. Chevy, I honestly don't know very much and I'm trying to learn more. I have heard that Kubota is as good as John Deere but around 10% cheaper for the equivalent tractor, I'm not sure if that is true or not. In my area, I have Kubota and John Deere dealers and both have good reputations.

We mainly only have JD and Kubota dealers around Charlottesville, VA. When I bought my first tractor, the JD one was BY FAR the closest dealer. He also had a nice 2 series 18.5 hp diesel tractor, a 4010, that I bought. No real competition due to Kubota dealer being so much farther away.

Now, there is a Kubota dealer office in Charlottesville and another Kubota dealer just over the mountain in Stuarts Draft, about 35 miles.

JD has quit putting turning brakes on lower hp 2 series and 3 series. So, I'm looking at a Kubota B2301 for my next tractor. It actually won in a spreadsheet comparison I did when looking for a replacement to my 4010 at that time.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I think you might be confused on Tractors vs TLBs. In that you have good company. What happened is about 4 or 5 years ago some dealers started calling their tractors equipped with a an add-on loader and an add-on backhoe implement as TLBs. But that's just sales hyperbole.

Hey Scotty, thanks for clarifying this and yes you are right, I was confusing TLB with the add-on loader and add-on backhoe implements as a TLB. Just for my own clarification, what are most TBN members referring to then when they use TLB here?

Oh, on your other question about the HST tranny. I'm curious what makes you say that JD HST are the best in the business? Is that factual or a bias?
I think JD HST are fine myself, but don't know enough about HST in general to say that one is better than another. But lets assume just for argument that JD and Kubota HST are equally durable.

Kubota offers a fingertip range splitter on some of their HST transmissions - and nobody else does. Kubota calls it the HST+ version & it gives the operator a choice of 6 ranges in forward and reverse. That makes Kubota's HST a lot more efficient, and is part of why I said that Kubota was leaving the rest of the HST world behind.
The other reasons have to do with operator-adjustable features of their HST+. Things like adjustable attack rate and throttle-to-load rpm matching that are part of Kubota's HST+ package.

Go try one. It's called HST+, and it is not earth-shaking new technology. Evolution, not revolution. But nobody else offers those features for their HST transmission. That's all it is. I imagine others will someday and maybe even better, but right now Kubota is leaving them behind. HST+ sure works well.

To answer this honestly I said it because of my personal experience of driving them around at dealers lots, looking at parts diagrams and researching who the parts suppliers are. JD also makes heavy equipment such as bulldozers, skid loaders and logging equipment that use HST's and that requires some serious engineering to get those to hold up in those kind of environments and stress loads. Kubota on the other hand doesn't cater to those kind of markets other then the skid loader market so they don't have the same kind of well rounded experience that JD does with equipment of all types.

Kubota also doesn't seem to know how or doesn't want to offer noiseless HST's for their medium frame size compact tractors. The standard L's have the noisiest HST's in the whole industry. This in my opinion is stupid and unnecessary. HST technology has come a long ways since it was first introduced back in the late 60's and this is where I make the argument that John Deere is better because all their tractors have a noiseless HST whereas Kubota does not. Kubota makes you step up to the Grand L and take the HST+ to get rid of the noise which is a larger frame size tractor and more weight then what the market for the Standard L buyers would want. Kubota sometimes cuts their noise off to spite their face when they are trying to balance out price points with compromised specs.

John Deere also offers an electronic HST transmission on their R series. It's not as slick as the Kubota and I will give them that but it is good and reliable as I have never read or heard of any problems or dissatisfaction from owners regarding them. But I want to say one last thing, I am not defending Deere nor am I any kind of fan boy of them. As I have stated in many other posts, Deere has their own set of short comings but I do believe they make some of the best tractors in the business. Their batting average in the reliability department is head and shoulders above the rest but so is their price and that's why I am thankful that there is Kubota to balance out the equilibrium.

 

[rScotty]

Hey Scotty, thanks for clarifying this and yes you are right, I was confusing TLB with the add-on loader and add-on backhoe implements as a TLB. Just for my own clarification, what are most TBN members referring to then when they use TLB here?

SNIP

Cahaba Valley Farm, I have no idea what most TBN members mean when they refer to Tractors with add-on implements as TLBs.
The use of the words seems to be changing though. I'm sure social media and salesmanship play a part.

The difference between Tractors and TLBs hasn't changed much in the last few decades, but the use of the words definitely is changing. How quickly and with whom probably varies with experience.

My guess is that TBNers who have been around heavy equipment for awhile understand and use the distinction - but that isn't everyone.

Also, since TLBs are significantly more sturdy and more expensive than tractors, it makes sense that a salesman will to use that term to describe his own tractors with add-ons whenever he can. And for newcomers who are just learning, some of that word usage will stick.

Then people being how they are, they will then begin to defend their own undersanding as being correct - whether it really is or not.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

SNIP _

WRITING ON JD VS KUBOTA HST:
Kubota also doesn't seem to know how or doesn't want to offer noiseless HST's for their medium frame size compact tractors. The standard L's have the noisiest HST's in the whole industry. This in my opinion is stupid and unnecessary. HST technology has come a long ways since it was first introduced back in the late 60's and this is where I make the argument that John Deere is better because all their tractors have a noiseless HST whereas Kubota does not. Kubota makes you step up to the Grand L and take the HST+ to get rid of the noise which is a larger frame size tractor and more weight then what the market for the Standard L buyers would want. Kubota sometimes cuts their noise off to spite their face when they are trying to balance out price points with compromised specs.

OK. Well... here is where my own ignorance gets me into trouble. I simply do not know why any HST should make that horrid HST whine. I don't even know of any mechanical reason why they can't be made to be quiet.

And I didn't know that Kubota L's were the worst in the industry because I've never driven one.

Part of my ignorance is that my only experience with any Kubota HST transmission is with their larger compacts and utility tractors (and TLBS) that use their "HST plus" or HST+ transmission. So I don't know anything about the standard Kubota HST 2 & 3 speeds.
And my only comparison with JD is with their 3E, 3R, and 4M series.
Just comparing those tractors I did try, the JDs seemed to me to have a louder whine than the Kubota HST+. I've no doubt other models differ.
But I still don't understand why any of them whine, and they all do. I've learned to operate our M59 with HST+ so that it doesn't whine much... having the extra ranges sure helps with that.

HSTs of any type aren't the only transmissions. All the manufacturers seem to offer an alternative to HST. Usually it is some form of tranny that features gears, powershift, and a hydaulic reverser. That is still my favorite transmission for quietness & durability.
rScotty